what would you change?

[Mona]

Yes, I think it was Toronto. His old "telly buddies" including William Shatner (who, apparently, they all called "Billy") and Lorne Greene (of Bonanza). I'm not sure he called them up for location details!

[Timeless A-Peel]

It would have been a wonderful in-joke to have Tara reappear in Canada (bonus if she got to talking about that space trip to Gambit ). But the Canadian episodes are something else I dearly wish I could change. Canada produces such good TV--really! We have great actors and writers and directors. I don't know who they had doing the hiring, but they could have done a better job. The first thing I would have done is take it out of Toronto. Toronto wasn't a good choice for the Avengers. I would've moved it to Ottawa, which looks much more British, or Victoria (if they were willing to get out of Ontario). If they wanted to do panaromas, I'd send them to Lake Louise. There are so many great Canadian settings they could have used. I'd have liked them to exploit those. And less of the cringeworthy Canadian lumberjackish stereotyping please.

Whereabouts did Patrick Macnee work when he was based in Canadian television? Was it Toronto? I don't know if anyone he knew in the industry was still working in it then, and/or still in contact. It might have been nice if some of his old telly buddies had been able to help out with locations, casting etc.

Yes, it would have been Toronto. He was working for the CBC after all, which would have been mainly based in "the centre of the universe" in the fifties (just as it is now). I was in a bookstore one day a few years back, and there was a nice thick reference tome on Canadian TV over the years. I looked up Patrick, and the number of things he popped up in was absolutely staggering. He did an enormous body of work over here. It's actually fun to read some of the interviews he did when TNA was in Canada because he gets all nostalgic about staying at the YMCA and such.

Actually, to this day I'm surprised that it was CTV which purchased (and aired) both the Avengers, and then TNA, given Patrick's exposure on the CBC. You'd think they'd want to capitalise on the familiar face under the bowler! But maybe they couldn't afford it--probably underfunded back then as now.

[Timeless A-Peel]

Hello, Timeless,

As you said, no one is going to change any minds, but your comments below were provocative enough for me that I feel compelled to respond to some of them.

TIMELESS: I don't think Cathy had a thing for Steed at all.

****Re: Cathy and Steed. We are left at the end of the very intriguing and enjoyable episode "Man With Two Shadows" with the implication that Cathy could identify Steed solely by viewing his body...that infers that at some point she has seen it unclothed. The two of them then burst out laughing which puts such a possible memory at least in a positive light. I think she did want him, and perhaps early on they did indeed sleep together, but then Cathy realized that Steed was not ready to settle down and commit to her, so she stopped any further sexual intimacy. She was not willing to simply be one more mare in his stable. Steed remembered and wanted more, so thus his playful advances.

TIMELESS: I always find it bemusing when people use Purdey’s affection for one of her partners to nix any affection for the other. Here’s my take on it.Steed and Purdey had no chemistry. Zilch. Let’s get that out of the way right from the start. As much as Joanna and Patrick may have enjoyed working together, they just never clicked onscreen.

****Well, chemistry is perhaps subjective per viewer. In my mind and with my watching the shows, there was chemistry there, indeed. Purdey and Steed together was very good viewing, easy to watch, some good banter and they developed into a solid, dependable friendship. Certainly, Steed was closer to Purdey in some ways than he was with any other woman we saw him with--he shared things about himself to her which we never heard him doing with even Emma (for instance, his horrific injuries after his first go over the Berlin wall).

TIMELESS: I think he wants to keep Purdey at arm’s length.

****I appreciate that's your own personal point of view. However, the shows writers and producers did not see things the same way, apparently, with Purdey essentially living at Steed's home in numerous episodes in the second season, with that apparent implication. One doesn't have to buy into the nuances, but they were put there by TNA.

TIMELESS: Now Purdey, well, Purdey has a few issues. We get a very good insight into Purdey’s reasons for acting the way she does in “Obsession.” She was engaged to a man who went off the rails, tried to murder a diplomat, then slapped her around when she tried to stop him. Needless to say, this left her with a couple issues when it came to relationships—she’s afraid to get into anything serious lest it all go bad and she ends up hurt again. Steed, to her, is safe ground. If he keeps her at arm’s length, then nothing terrible’s going to happen, and if they did have some sort of liaison, I think it’d be fleeting and nothing much would come of it. So either way he’s well-within her comfort zone. She can flirt with him quite safely and never have to worry about it going somewhere that might get too serious.

****That's a very nice Purdey analysis, Timeless; an interesting psychoanalysis of her. I agree that Steed and Purdey would not become any type of permanent item, for the only reason that Steed's heart is solely affixed to Emma Peel. No one is saying that they got married! Steed, Purdey, Gambit, probably everyone knows that Steed's heart is loyal to his love for Emma. That doesn't mean that Purdey and Steed didn't still develop an intimacy, based on those open and apparent rules.

TIMELESS: Now we come to the nub of the matter. Does Purdey have any romantic interests in Gambit? Absolutely. No question. In an alternate universe with no Larry Doomer, Purdey and Gambit would have been lovers ages ago.

****Of course, I strongly disagree. But, again, it's interesting to me to read your narrative and get behind a mindset which is quite foreign to me. A keen benefit of this type of Forum. I learn a lot reading posts here and it does make me think.

TIMELESS: Purdey’s been burned by Larry, she’s scared of anything serious, and Gambit’s serious. Very serious. I genuinely think Purdey is the girl Gambit’s willing to give up all the others for. I’ve never bought the idea that he just wants her as the next conquest, or because she’s the first to ever turn him down. Gambit has no problem getting women. Why chase Purdey? Isn’t that a lot of work just to be able to brag about in the office the next day? Reading Gambit as all guns and sex is very simplistic, and doesn’t pay service to the layers they gave the characters in TNA, Gambit included. No, he’s willing to go the distance. He’s still hoping for “one of these days,” and he makes it known. That puts the ball firmly in Purdey’s court, and it leads to her instigate their push-pull relationship.

****Well, I think the above is an interesting discussion but I'm not sure we see anything of the sort in TNA. We know Gambit wants Purdey, but I can't say I ever say anything along the lines of him settling down with her. I would say the show seemed to put Gambit solidly in the line of his work as an agent, with that being what he took seriously first and foremost. I never saw any expression of him wanting to become permanently involved with any woman. In fact, his use of women seemed to be presented as it was, really, solely about the sex, and his primary focus in life was being an agent.

TIMELESS: Purdey wants Gambit, but she’s afraid to get involved with someone again. In the meantime, she doesn’t want anyone else to have him, either. If she’s not interested in him, why does she care about his little black book? Why does she make snarky little jealous comments about his dates? She doesn’t seem to care about any of Steed’s women—on the contrary, she’s quite charitable about them. She liked Tricia, she smoothed things over with Suzy. But she’s always annoyed when she hears or sees anything about Gambit and another woman. Why does she care if he gets “carried away” with the lovely Olga? Why has she been gathering intel on his love life so she can quiz him about it in “To Catch a Rat”? What does she fob off Dr. LeParge in “K is for Kill”? (And why doesn’t she keep her eyes to herself whenever Gambit’s blanket slips in “The Three-Handed Game”?) Sometimes she gets brave and indulges herself, like when she kisses him in “Sleeper.” (Steed gets a peck on the cheek). Her reaction to his supposed demise in “Faces” speaks volumes. I could go on. There’s no shortage of examples.

****Good points, but it could also be interpreted that because Purdey realized Gambit was still in massive sleep around phase, he was completely not appropriate for any type of relationship. After all, as I said, she didn't take him home for dinner with her mother, as she had another agent. Perhaps her vetting of his love life even turned her more away from even considering being with him--1) because Steed was there and no one looks better than Steed and 2) Gambit wasn't showing any type of resolve or commitment to Purdey. I find it hard to believe that Gambit really wanted Purdey, and showed it by not telling her that, and by sleeping with any other woman he picked up. With Steed, at least, things were very clear--he cared VERY deeply about her, was open to sex as friends (inferred via Season Two), but nothing permanent could happen due to Emma Peel. And, when Steed is with Purdey, (Dead Men, Angels of Death, Medium Rare) he is not with any other woman. With Gambit, Purdey got no clarity of any sort, and just saw him always with someone else, obviously for sex. So, how would any woman naturally think "Gosh, then Gambit must really be ready to settle down with me." That seems like a huge leap to me.


TIMELESS: Sometimes the characterization took a wrong turn for the sake of the plot).

****Yeah, the whole "She's Purdey" at the end of "Obsession" also wreaks of obtuse chauvinism from Steed and Gambit.

TIMELESS: The whole emphasis on the Steed/Purdey relationship actually wreaks havoc with continuity in the process, and it weakens the dynamics—Steed and Purdey are both more fun with Gambit in the mix. By the time we drift toward the end of the season, you can see the writers were starting to realise things weren’t working, and they start putting Purdey and Gambit together again, and the spark comes back. By “Forward Base” they’re having nice little discussions about whether men would ever up and leave women they loved. Boy, I wonder what brought that on?

****Well, for me, I would be happy to see Gambit leave the show and just have it be Steed and Purdey. Purdey is my favorite Avengers female, so that would be a win-win for me!

****I'm also not sure what you mean that Steed and Purdey together upsets the continuity of the show. What continuity are you referring to?

****Forward Base is not an episode about Purdey and Gambit--the best scenes are with Steed fighting the man in the little shop and then him talking to Purdey and Gambit when they relay the man walked into the sea. One line exchanged between the two of them is hardly a decisive premise of their being together, or even referring to each other. That seems a bit of a reach.

TIMELESS: They just needed to get their mess together.

****Well, I hope they do one day for you. They can have a double wedding with Steed and Emma.

And now I'm tired!

Yeah, well, as you say, we're not going to change each other's minds on this, but I have to say if you think I'm reaching on some points, you're guilty of much the same. But hey, c'est la vie. All I'll say is that reading Gambit as all sex and guns doesn't really give due credit to the writing or the performance, and that there was a noticeable, quite jarring shift in the way that the writers paired Purdey with Gambit all the way through seaon 1, and then suddenly threw her together with Steed in season 2, before switching back to Gambit near the end. It leaves this little period in the middle which doesn't seem in keeping with the character dynamics previously set out.

(Oh, and Gambit and Purdey both hang around Steed's through most of season 2--we hardly see either of their flats through most of it. They probably eat all his food, too. )

Anyhow, obviously I loved Gambit, and think the show wouldn't have worked very well without him. Steed and he have one of the best Avengers dynamics (it makes me wish we had more of him with Dr. Keel). There's not much point in me reiterating my arguments, so whatever. Have my favourite shot of Patrick instead:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r192 ... an0034.jpg

(Love the idea of Mother ODing on his pain meds, though. Very House. )

[Mrs. Peel]

In my opinion Steed, Purdey and Gambit are great together. It's something new and they have created a very special mood - they didn't focuse only on the relationship between Steed and his female partner - it's more like friendship, well I can't describe it - it's just different but in a positive way. You just have a good feeling when you see the three together.

[Mona]

I was in a bookstore one day a few years back, and there was a nice thick reference tome on Canadian TV over the years. I looked up Patrick, and the number of things he popped up in was absolutely staggering. He did an enormous body of work over here. It's actually fun to read some of the interviews he did when TNA was in Canada because he gets all nostalgic about staying at the YMCA and such.

Hello, Timeless,

What exact book was that you are referring to? I'd like to try and track it down myself.

[Timeless A-Peel]

In my opinion Steed, Purdey and Gambit are great together. It's something new and they have created a very special mood - they didn't focuse only on the relationship between Steed and his female partner - it's more like friendship, well I can't describe it - it's just different but in a positive way. You just have a good feeling when you see the three together.

You do indeed. The comraderie between the three is lovely. There are some great casual scenes where they're exchanging dialogue and just enjoying each other's company (a favourite of mine is Dead Men are Dangerous, when they all quite cheerfully drink out of the same jug without bothering to wipe the top off or anything. I hadn't seen familiarity like that since the Patrick and Diana years). As Joanna said, they were thick as theives on-set and never fought amongst themselves--it was always a case of them backing each other up when things got bad, and I think that translated very well to screen.

[oneknightsteed]

Since the original tag for 'The Living Dead' was so lame, I offer the following alternative.


Emma - "Steeeed! Everytime I asked if you believe in ghosts, you have evaded me! Do you or don't you?"

Steed - "It's just a silly, child's illusion Mrs. Peel."

Emma - "And as a silly child, what was your illusion?"

Steed (Blushing) - "Well....There was this large, buxom woman..."

Emma - "Buxom, Steed?"

Steed - "All my women are buxom Mrs. Peel. When I was about 6 years old, one dark and stormy night..."

Emma - "Of course."

Steed -" Uhum! If you don't mind! There was a flash of lightning and I saw her standing by my bust of Lord Nelson."

Emma - "What on earth is a 6 year old boy doing playing with a bust of Lord Nelson?"

Steed - "I didn't play with it Mrs. Peel!"

Emma - "What ever you say, Steed."

Steed - "If I may continue! Without further interruption! This woman was dressed in tweeds, smoking a cigar, holding a kilt in her hands. She kept saying, in the most irritating drawl, "We'll make a good woman out of him yet!" It was quite frightening for such a lad of tender years!"

Emma (Chuckling) - What ever did you do, Steed?"

Steed - "I ran into the hall, grabbed my great great great grandfather Steeds sword from the Battle of Waterloo, charged back into my room, and with a full-throated wail I fiercely impaled the loathsome apparition!"

Emma - "My knight in shining armor!"

Steed - " Knight with a very sore backside, I'm afraid.I received a sound thrashing for my daring deed. When I impaled the ghosty, the blade drove through the wall, the point of which pierced my auntie Ethel in the posterior region. Neither one of us could sit for weeks!"

Emma - "You poor dear! Tsk,tsk!"

[Mona]

Steed seeing Uncle Evelyn as a ghost! Funny, OKS!

That's a much better tag than the really lame one in "Living Dead". I agree they should have tried to close the episode with some answer to the ghost question Steed evaded all show. My idea is that at some point in his life he has seen a ghost but he doesn't want to believe what he himself saw. Ergo his deft connivance of dancing around the question.

Mona

[Mrs. Peel]

Why can't he say: "Oh yes, I believe in ghosts, so let's spend the night together, then I'm not afraid"

[oneknightsteed]

Why can't he say: "Oh yes, I believe in ghosts, so let's spend the night together, then I'm not afraid"

Naughty, naughty Mrs. Peel....