your first "Avengers"

The place for general chat about the television series and its characters, from the ABC years through to The New Avengers.
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darren
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Post by darren »

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:
Mona wrote: Dandy: I'm interested in the sexism comment about "Trap". I hadn't see sexism as an issue in the episode. Does the sexism come from using Purdey's bra as a slingshot? (Or, hmm, from Steed and Gambit both having their Woman of the Week Club in full gear at the beginning? Oh, wait, it's not sexism to sleep around with a woman for a week and then move on to another one--that's the natural personality of the main male stars we love!) ;-)

Considering Purdey does wear a bra, not sure how making a tool of it is sexism. I mean, how do you make a slingshot from Gambit's tightie whities? Won't work--you need a bra. I never was offended by that. If there is another sexist attribute aside from that one, please let me know.

Look at Charlie Chan movies--no actor portraying Charlie Chan was ever Asian; they were all Caucasians dressed up as Asian, although, oddly, Chan's sons were truly Asian. There was a history of that in film/TV making--I don't agree with it myself, but in context 35 years ago it was not yet seen as problematic or so offensive to our modern knowledge there were skilled Asian actors who should have earned that role.

There was indeed a bad pun in the tag of the episode, absolutely, which all makes us cringe no doubt, but the episode didn't otherwise wreak of racist comments. We have heard of Steed being chased by Russians, shot by Germans, in prison in Nee Sang (probably by the Chinese), etc, throughout his career; now he is chased by the Chinese (again?). The innate nationality of the bad guys does not bespeak racism. I mean, probably the Russians could not stand the character of Brodny--at least Soo Choy had some brains and dignity. ;-)

Mona
It doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion, I just happened to have the book handy and was interested in what it had to say. I agree with your comments.

When one is talking about a product of the 1970s criticisng sexism is as pointless as admonishing a tattoo in a high secruity prison, but the racism is based around an Englishman posing as (and I quote the book again) "an odd mixture of Japanese, Chinese, but mostly Causasian and talking like Baron Greenback out of Danger Mouse.

It's fair to say there possibly weren't many Asian actors available in the UK at the time. And is this a greater crime than Peter Sellers playing a French man in the Clouseau movies or an Indian Doctor in The Millionairess
In these days of equal opportunities, a white actor dressed up as an asian character offends our sensibilities but it's on an going development in acting. Originally say in Shakespeare's time, men played every role regardless of genda. Then women gradually got welcomed in to play women, and then other nationalities joined in. It was all acting but TV, film and Theatre is pretty much totally based on reality now. It's certainly becoming a case where a disabled character will have to be played by a disabled actor etc.

Terry Wood as Sou Choy is an interesting issue as he is only the physical form, I believe I'm accurate in saying that the voice was supplied by Robert Rietty who also appeared in the episode - well known for his voice work like on early bond villains.

The Avengers presents the stereotype. The whole Avengersland is a stereotype of how the world thinks of "England". It's the same with any other nationality appearing in the show, they subscribe to the cliché. The Chinese usually talk about Confucius etc. Trap was doing the usual thing but as The New Avengers has more of a footing in the real world (as intended), it stands out rather awkwardly. I'm sure even the final gag was always meant to be groan worthy - but I'm not going to get offended for someone else.

I really enjoy Trap personally as it's all about the groovy music and the relationship of the leads.
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Frankymole
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Post by Frankymole »

Mona wrote:Dandy: I'm interested in the sexism comment about "Trap". I hadn't see sexism as an issue in the episode. Does the sexism come from using Purdey's bra as a slingshot? (Or, hmm, from Steed and Gambit both having their Woman of the Week Club in full gear at the beginning? Oh, wait, it's not sexism to sleep around with a woman for a week and then move on to another one--that's the natural personality of the main male stars we love!) ;-)
It takes two to tango though - do the women that Gambit gets off with foresee a "long term relationship"? They seem just as happy to have a brief fling (rather than a bra sling ;)), like that flirty German woman in "The Eagle's Nest". It was the 1970s, after all...

Robert Rietty is caucasian too ;)
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oneknightsteed
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Post by oneknightsteed »

Mona wrote:
Frankymole: Hey, being so bad it's laughable IS a good trait! Anyone ever see the movie "Plan Nine From Outer Space"? ;-) Incredibly amusing and awful movie. The two can be combined for good entertainment.

Mona
I'm on your team on this one Mona! (What a surprise! :wink: ) 'Trap' is definitly a Steed feast, as well as Ed Wood worthy. It would be a good candidate for Science Mystery Theatre 3000.

Sue 8)
Last edited by oneknightsteed on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mona
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Post by Mona »

It takes two to tango though - do the women that Gambit gets off with foresee a "long term relationship"? They seem just as happy to have a brief fling (rather than a bra sling ;)), like that flirty German woman in "The Eagle's Nest". It was the 1970s, after all...
Extremely good point, Frankymole, (although I focus on the Steed relationships and don't notice the Gambit ones!) I have to say I'd have done Steed just to be a Weekly Woman myself. ;-)

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Post by mousemeat »

Frankymole wrote:
Mona wrote:Dandy: I'm interested in the sexism comment about "Trap". I hadn't see sexism as an issue in the episode. Does the sexism come from using Purdey's bra as a slingshot? (Or, hmm, from Steed and Gambit both having their Woman of the Week Club in full gear at the beginning? Oh, wait, it's not sexism to sleep around with a woman for a week and then move on to another one--that's the natural personality of the main male stars we love!) ;-)
It takes two to tango though - do the women that Gambit gets off with foresee a "long term relationship"? They seem just as happy to have a brief fling (rather than a bra sling ;)), like that flirty German woman in "The Eagle's Nest". It was the 1970s, after all...

Robert Rietty is caucasian too ;)
to me, the 70's were so bombastic...attitudes, clothes, sex, relationships, and whatever....at least the arrival of punk like the clash, sex pistols, 999,
etc lifted the decade to an interesting conclusion..
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Post by Cybernowt »

I didnt mind Trap. Steed's sucking of air noise as he has his hand 'chopped' off had me laughing. I think its the duff chinese make-up that really ruined it. The chinese make-up on Chang is not as noticibly duff in Dr Who's Talons Of Weng-Chiang.

As to 1st episodes. I remember seeing a couple of New Avengers eps when they were first on. I believe Target to be one of them - I could remember the 'black dots' that were being shot before I saw it again.

The next episode I saw could have been A Touch Of Brimstone at a SF/Fantasy day at a cinema. Apart from that, it will have been the repeats on Ch4.
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hans
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Post by hans »

The first episode I watch was either dead man's treasure or return of the cybernauts, I was flicking through the channels and it was on, didn't really knew what it was; a year-ish later it was being metioned on the radio a lot while I was doing a project for college, so I had a gander and got inspired.
Radio 4 was trying to tell me something me thinks :D .
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Post by pauljwyatt »

My first Avengers episode was in 1983 on Channel 4 with the last few minutes of "The Joker". As i remember it was on a Saturday night and i was only 8 but i remember the huge playing cards and the distinctive end credit music. Because we used to go out as a family on a Saturday i didn't see it again until "All done with Mirrors". At the time there was no internet or books available (Dave Roger's book was out i believe but i had to special order it at WH Smiths, which took a month - blimey imagine that happening now?!) i had no idea what happened to Diana Rigg so i wrote to Channel 4 and they sent me an episode guide and a publicity picture.

So my first (proper) Avengers experience was really with Tara King - who i loved. I audio recorded all the shows - most left to record as we'd usually go out. Most of these i still have. I then signed up to Dave Rogers's "On target" mags and also one called "With Charm, umbrella and bowler" - a very cool newspaper type thing from the States. One issue of which had a great interview with Patrick Macnee.

By the time the black and whites aired in November 84 (with Town of no return) i was a 9 year old Avengers expert - and i've loved it ever since!
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Post by Dearesttara »

When I was nine, I discovered an episode who fascinated me, it was a Tara episode. Ten years later, I recognized it : Pandora (with the scene where the old man says " Non... un Rembrandt" (in french)). It was my first contact with The Avengers. The episode captived me by his suspense, the beautiful romantic theme and Linda's acting. Soon after, I discovered, with VHS, three Emma episodes. I remember only the third because It was A touch of brimstone ! When I saw Diana in "Queen of sin"... :shock: :shock: :shock:

(By the way, I began to take an interest in girls after to see this episode ! :lol:)

But I began to see the series two years ago when the french-german channel Arte broadcasted the seasons 4 to 8. Now, it's (with The Prisoner) my favorite series !

Pandora is now my 4th favorite episode, one of the best episodes of the series for me !
Tara King for ever
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Post by roboman1984 »

I think my first Avengers episode was The Cybernaughts shows in the 1990s on Channel 4. Loved it and never looked back!
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