Frankymole wrote:Yes, it's an episode that gets worse every time I watch it (something I haven't chosen to do for many years now). A shame, as the cast is "to die for" as the youngsters say: Jeremy Young, Peter Wyngarde, Colin Jeavons, Carol Cleveland, Michael Latimer. They're pretty mean to Colin Jeavons, another reason I dislike it, though he makes a great victim I prefer him as a stronger character / villain. Steed in 18th century garb (any excuse). Stab me vitals!
Ah well. Never mind the quality, feel the width. The direction is interesting even if the story and characters aren't. There is bound to be the odd misfire in such a great season - the reason why Muslim works of art always have a deliberate flaw hidden somewhere in them is that only God can be perfect... The Avengers mustn't always be perfect - heaven forfend! Just 99% of the time
I've only watched it once, and really have no desire to do it again, but if I'm going to do a proper rewatch I suppose I'll have to. I'm hoping my newfound appreciation for Peter Wyngarde since watching Jason King will bear me through. Apparently his commentary for it is pretty brilliant, too. I can enjoy every other Avengers episode in some way, but it's altogether too nasty for my liking.
Frankymole wrote:Yes, it's an episode that gets worse every time I watch it (something I haven't chosen to do for many years now). A shame, as the cast is "to die for" as the youngsters say: Jeremy Young, Peter Wyngarde, Colin Jeavons, Carol Cleveland, Michael Latimer. They're pretty mean to Colin Jeavons, another reason I dislike it, though he makes a great victim I prefer him as a stronger character / villain. Steed in 18th century garb (any excuse). Stab me vitals!
Ah well. Never mind the quality, feel the width. The direction is interesting even if the story and characters aren't. There is bound to be the odd misfire in such a great season - the reason why Muslim works of art always have a deliberate flaw hidden somewhere in them is that only God can be perfect... The Avengers mustn't always be perfect - heaven forfend! Just 99% of the time
I've only watched it once, and really have no desire to do it again, but if I'm going to do a proper rewatch I suppose I'll have to. I'm hoping my newfound appreciation for Peter Wyngarde since watching Jason King will bear me through. Apparently his commentary for it is pretty brilliant, too. I can enjoy every other Avengers episode in some way, but it's altogether too nasty for my liking.
I have to respectfully disagree. I find this a very entertaining episode, maybe not top 10 worthy but enjoyable nevertheless. The orgy is a little silly (actually a lot silly) but there are some really great scenes in this one, such as Mrs. Peel's visit to Cartney to ask for his donation to the home for wayward girls, Steed & Mrs. Peel at the opera, Steed's initiation into the Hellfire Club, the great sword fight, among others.
Frankymole wrote:Yes, it's an episode that gets worse every time I watch it (something I haven't chosen to do for many years now). A shame, as the cast is "to die for" as the youngsters say: Jeremy Young, Peter Wyngarde, Colin Jeavons, Carol Cleveland, Michael Latimer. They're pretty mean to Colin Jeavons, another reason I dislike it, though he makes a great victim I prefer him as a stronger character / villain. Steed in 18th century garb (any excuse). Stab me vitals!
Ah well. Never mind the quality, feel the width. The direction is interesting even if the story and characters aren't. There is bound to be the odd misfire in such a great season - the reason why Muslim works of art always have a deliberate flaw hidden somewhere in them is that only God can be perfect... The Avengers mustn't always be perfect - heaven forfend! Just 99% of the time
I've only watched it once, and really have no desire to do it again, but if I'm going to do a proper rewatch I suppose I'll have to. I'm hoping my newfound appreciation for Peter Wyngarde since watching Jason King will bear me through. Apparently his commentary for it is pretty brilliant, too. I can enjoy every other Avengers episode in some way, but it's altogether too nasty for my liking.
I have to respectfully disagree. I find this a very entertaining episode, maybe not top 10 worthy but enjoyable nevertheless. The orgy is a little silly (actually a lot silly) but there are some really great scenes in this one, such as Mrs. Peel's visit to Cartney to ask for his donation to the home for wayward girls, Steed & Mrs. Peel at the opera, Steed's initiation into the Hellfire Club, the great sword fight, among others.
It seems to be one of those polarising, love-it-or-hate-it episodes. I do think it's gotten more attention than it would have otherwise due to the whole notoriety/"banned episode" aspect. It's almost a case of the show believing it's own press a little too much, and trying too hard to be "kinky" and outrageous--even Steed and Emma seem off to me. What surprised me the most when I watched it was how much the episode dragged--I found a lot of it pretty boring when it wasn't being nasty. When I watch it again, I'll be interested to see if it strikes me the same way as it did the first time around.
I found the plot varied from dull to non-existent, or at least not sensible.
Cleverly Cartney (!) wants to blow up the Houses of Parliament - yawn, that's as old as the Gunpowder Plot - and in the meantime wants to damage the government's reputation with other countries by giving their ambassadors exploding cigars and rubber scissors to humilate themselves with.
Frankymole wrote:Yes, it's an episode that gets worse every time I watch it (something I haven't chosen to do for many years now). A shame, as the cast is "to die for" as the youngsters say: Jeremy Young, Peter Wyngarde, Colin Jeavons, Carol Cleveland, Michael Latimer. They're pretty mean to Colin Jeavons, another reason I dislike it, though he makes a great victim I prefer him as a stronger character / villain. Steed in 18th century garb (any excuse). Stab me vitals!
Ah well. Never mind the quality, feel the width. The direction is interesting even if the story and characters aren't. There is bound to be the odd misfire in such a great season - the reason why Muslim works of art always have a deliberate flaw hidden somewhere in them is that only God can be perfect... The Avengers mustn't always be perfect - heaven forfend! Just 99% of the time
I agree that this episode disappoints, just as Wyngarde's Season 5 offering gets better the more you watch it. Clemens is more hit and miss than the other main writers. When he gets it right he hits gold, when he doesn't....
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
Rodney,
Thank you so much for an amazing thread. How fortunate we are to have you here! I am a new member so have just been catching up on the last 4 years!
So a few questions.
1) Does your dad have all the original scripts he wrote?
2) What was you dad's opinion switching from videotaping to film and what was that like for him?
3) How can we have access to the episodes of your dads that you mentioned---Five Smooth Stones ??
4) Early on you said "The truth has rarely been revealed about key moments in the show's history e.g. why Liz Shepherd was axed. He hopes that one day all can be revealed!"
Would love to hear your dad's viewpoint on this!
You are just a treasure to this site Rodney! Thank you again!
Last edited by anti-clockwise on Thu May 30, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've also found Touch of Brimstone to be an episode that's changed in my estimation over the years. Initially I wasn't that keen, as it felt rather self indulgent and out of kilter with the rest of the series. I now enjoy it much more for its stylish evocation of the classic 1940s regency period romps that the British film industry was noted for. The 'pea' scene still works every time ! The photography and production design is excellent and complements Clemens' sardonic dialogue, and whatever the improbabilities of the plot, it provides a showcase for some great performances.
On a slightly related note - I've just been watching Thorold Dickinson's 1949 film Queen of Spades, and noticed the similarities between Anton Walbrook's scenery chewing performance, and that given by Stuart Kirby's 'Mad Baron' in Epic.
Last edited by Speed Six on Wed May 22, 2013 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rodney just another question. The episode The Charmers showed pictures of Agents on a wall which someone correctly identified the pics of Clemens and other producers/writers on the show. Very clever idea. Does you dad have any idea who thought of that?
from a selfish point of view my father preferred the video tape episodes because he could be there as they made the episodes. Once on film, he felt more removed. He still considers the end of the Gale era and the beginning of the Peel era as the show's pinnacle.
The Avengers: a product of the sixties and a timeless piece of sublime art
So glad to hear from you Rodney. Quite understandable why your dad felt that way about the videotape. I wonder how the actors felt about it and how it affected their performance too.
What were your dad's favorite episodes?
I just saw The White Elephant and there was a character with the name Marshall. Wonder who came up with that fellows name?
