Dr Martin King

[Lhbizness]

Ouch.

Have you seen all the Venus episodes? Her characterisation changes massively (as does her background, it seems). In some episodes she's terribly passive, in others she's a prototype Tara-style independent "swinging chick".

Dr King has one advantage though - none of those godawful songs that stop the drama dead for five minutes in the middle of an episode (sometimes twice!).

Sorry, that may have come off harsher than I intended it.

I've seen all the Venus eps too (I've seen the whole series, I'm just now rewatching the early seasons in order). At first she annoyed me greatly, but I've softened to her. It is very odd, though, how she goes from being a grown-up but rather naive woman to being basically a teenager, via a haircut and a sudden personality shift. You're right that she seems the prototype to Tara, which might be one of the many many reasons I cannot stand Tara. (Sorry about that too).

[Johnny O]

I believe that the scripts for Dr. King were so heavily medically involved that they needed another Doctor Character to do the part.

I suspect that was the case as well. They were made for a doctor character, and couldn't have been retooled for Cathy without heavy editing (which would have defeated the purpose of using them in the first place).

Somebody better tell Brian Clemens that, then. In the 1990's documentary for Channel 4 (UK), "Avenging The Avengers", he clearly states that they had the left over scripts and didn't want to ditch them, so simply made rewrites to turn the character into a woman.

Still, I'm sure you know better.

[Lhbizness]

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
Charlie Parker wrote:
I believe that the scripts for Dr. King were so heavily medically involved that they needed another Doctor Character to do the part.


I suspect that was the case as well. They were made for a doctor character, and couldn't have been retooled for Cathy without heavy editing (which would have defeated the purpose of using them in the first place).


Somebody better tell Brian Clemens that, then. In the 1990's documentary for Channel 4 (UK), "Avenging The Avengers", he clearly states that they had the left over scripts and didn't want to ditch them, so simply made rewrites to turn the character into a woman.

Still, I'm sure you know better.

I slightly suspect Clemens on this one. Most of the Cathy episodes might have included large sections of dialogue written for Dr. Keel, but they didn't just take Keel's character and make him female. They made Cathy a widowed anthropologist who had lived in Kenya and worked (every once in awhile at least) at the British Museum. That would take a lot more rewriting than just flipping gender. Perhaps Clemens meant that they kept the plots and some dialogue, rather than tossing out a whole season of scripts. That would also make sense for the presence of King, who was obviously an attempted Keel replacement that didn't quite fly.

[Timeless A-Peel]

Timeless A-Peel wrote:
Charlie Parker wrote:
I believe that the scripts for Dr. King were so heavily medically involved that they needed another Doctor Character to do the part.


I suspect that was the case as well. They were made for a doctor character, and couldn't have been retooled for Cathy without heavy editing (which would have defeated the purpose of using them in the first place).


Somebody better tell Brian Clemens that, then. In the 1990's documentary for Channel 4 (UK), "Avenging The Avengers", he clearly states that they had the left over scripts and didn't want to ditch them, so simply made rewrites to turn the character into a woman.

Still, I'm sure you know better.

I slightly suspect Clemens on this one. Most of the Cathy episodes might have included large sections of dialogue written for Dr. Keel, but they didn't just take Keel's character and make him female. They made Cathy a widowed anthropologist who had lived in Kenya and worked (every once in awhile at least) at the British Museum. That would take a lot more rewriting than just flipping gender. Perhaps Clemens meant that they kept the plots and some dialogue, rather than tossing out a whole season of scripts. That would also make sense for the presence of King, who was obviously an attempted Keel replacement that didn't quite fly.

Clemens isn't always the most reliable source, either. His comments don't always tally up with those of the other players. It's entirely possible that both stories could be right--they had a batch of scripts, some of which were so medically involved that it made more sense to have someone step into the Keel role, and others that were less-medically inclined, where Keel could be subbed more easily for another character, in this case Cathy. But they certainly had to sit down and work out who Cathy was first. I highly doubt they took scripts and scratched out "Keel" for "Cathy" without tweaking them at all.

[costumr]

Clemens isn't always the most reliable source, either. His comments don't always tally up with those of the other players. It's entirely possible that both stories could be right--they had a batch of scripts, some of which were so medically involved that it made more sense to have someone step into the Keel role, and others that were less-medically inclined, where Keel could be subbed more easily for another character, in this case Cathy. But they certainly had to sit down and work out who Cathy was first. I highly doubt they took scripts and scratched out "Keel" for "Cathy" without tweaking them at all.

A good point. In Mission to Montreal, doesn't King prescribe sedatives to Carla Berotti? Cathy couldn't have done that.

By the way, I usually just read all the fascinating comments, but I did have to jump in on this one.

[Timeless A-Peel]

Clemens isn't always the most reliable source, either. His comments don't always tally up with those of the other players. It's entirely possible that both stories could be right--they had a batch of scripts, some of which were so medically involved that it made more sense to have someone step into the Keel role, and others that were less-medically inclined, where Keel could be subbed more easily for another character, in this case Cathy. But they certainly had to sit down and work out who Cathy was first. I highly doubt they took scripts and scratched out "Keel" for "Cathy" without tweaking them at all.

A good point. In Mission to Montreal, doesn't King prescribe sedatives to Carla Berotti? Cathy couldn't have done that.

By the way, I usually just read all the fascinating comments, but I did have to jump in on this one.

He does indeed. King's whole involvement is based around the fact that he can sub for the supposedly indisposed ship's doctor, keeping a close eye on Carla in the process. The medical angle is pretty prominent--you'd need to heavily rewrite the role of Steed's partner to accommodate a non-doctor character.

[Lhbizness]

Clemens isn't always the most reliable source, either. His comments don't always tally up with those of the other players. It's entirely possible that both stories could be right--they had a batch of scripts, some of which were so medically involved that it made more sense to have someone step into the Keel role, and others that were less-medically inclined, where Keel could be subbed more easily for another character, in this case Cathy. But they certainly had to sit down and work out who Cathy was first. I highly doubt they took scripts and scratched out "Keel" for "Cathy" without tweaking them at all.

A good point. In Mission to Montreal, doesn't King prescribe sedatives to Carla Berotti? Cathy couldn't have done that.

By the way, I usually just read all the fascinating comments, but I did have to jump in on this one.

He does indeed. King's whole involvement is based around the fact that he can sub for the supposedly indisposed ship's doctor, keeping a close eye on Carla in the process. The medical angle is pretty prominent--you'd need to heavily rewrite the role of Steed's partner to accommodate a non-doctor character.

The same goes for all of the King episodes - The Sell Out requires a doctor to figure out what's wrong with Mark and Dead on Course needs a doctor to attend all the dead and injured passengers from the plane crash.

Odd question, but would there have been any bar to Cathy being a medical doctor in 1962? Would a female doctor have been unusual?

[Charlie Parker]

I believe that the scripts for Dr. King were so heavily medically involved that they needed another Doctor Character to do the part.

I suspect that was the case as well. They were made for a doctor character, and couldn't have been retooled for Cathy without heavy editing (which would have defeated the purpose of using them in the first place).

Somebody better tell Brian Clemens that, then. In the 1990's documentary for Channel 4 (UK), "Avenging The Avengers", he clearly states that they had the left over scripts and didn't want to ditch them, so simply made rewrites to turn the character into a woman.

Still, I'm sure you know better.

That's a bit of a rude response, I am merely recalling details which I have read elsewhere and it makes a lot of sense as other have pointed out given the nature of the scripts with Dr. King in them. Also Jonathan Alwyn who directed the first Cathy episode in production claimed (on the Outside In Man commentary I think, hven't watched it for years), he was expecting a man to turn up to play the part of "Chris Gale", and if you look at the background on one of the shots on the Avenging the Avengers documentary there is a script extract which has dialogue between a Chris and Steed. Also I didn't contradict Brian Clemens that they had a bunch of scripts which could of been Keel scripts and changed to fit Mrs. Gale. Propellant 23 for example could easily of had Dr. Keel en-route to do some medical missionary work and it wouldn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to have Dr. Keel in Mr. Teddy Bear

How heavily involved with the second season was Brian Clemens? Was he working behind the scenes? I only ask as it is the only season of the show in which he doesn't contribute a script. A

[Lhbizness]

You know, at the end of the day, thank God Dr. King didn't work out. The combination of Steed and Cathy, and then Steed and Mrs. Peel, was what made The Avengers more than just a British version of an American detective show. I somehow doubt it would have lasted as long or been as iconic if it had just been two guys in trenchcoats.

[mousemeat]

I agree - one of my favourite characters and we didn't get enough of him. Though he's still got more screen time than Dr Keel, at the moment!

http://www.theavengers.tv/forever/bio-rollason.htm

And he doesn't let Steed get away with anything, which is good, because Steed needs keeping in line in seasons 1-3.

the early version of STEED, WAS A HANDFUL.