Angels of Death

The place for general chat about the television series and its characters, from the ABC years through to The New Avengers.
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Frankymole
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Post by Frankymole »

I think we agree.
Lhbizness wrote:
Frankymole wrote:It's all a matter of taste - some people like Gambit, some people like Tara, there's even a rumour that someone somewhere likes the movie. Holding an opinion that they're wrong to like those things isn't valid, because they're not objectively "bad" things to like. It's just that we have different preferences.

No-one can write a thesis on why Gambit or Tara don't work as characters (or Emma or Cathy), because all of them were hugely popular with one section of audiences or another and the shows (both TNA and original) were a great success.
Well, you could write a thesis on why Gambit or Tara or any of them didn't work as characters - you could interpret the show through feminism, through queer theory, through psychoanalytic reading, historical/cultural interpretation, or simply provide a close reading of episodes demonstrating how you conceptualize and interpret the different characters, motivations, etc.
Yes, you can do that - subjectively. Any "reading" is subjective.

This is art, not science - you can never objectively prove that Gambit (say) is a worse character than Emma, any more than I can prove that Cathy is a better one.

Like I said - it's a matter of subjectivity, of taste, of likes and dislikes. We can respect each other's tastes without trashing them for liking Gambit with some argument that he's objectively inferior (not that I'm suggesting you wanted to do so, just that that is how it comes across).

I trust that we are using the terms "subjective" and "objective" in the same way?
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Post by Lhbizness »

Frankymole wrote:Yes, you can do that - subjectively. Any "reading" is subjective.

But this is art, not science - you can never objectively prove that Gambit (say) is a worse character than Emma, any more than I can prove that Cathy is a better one.

Like I said - it's a matter of subjectivity, of taste, of likes and dislikes. We can respect each other's tastes without trashing them for liking Gambit with some argument that he's objectively inferior (not that I'm suggesting you wanted to do so, just that that is how it comes across).

I trust that we are using the terms "subjective" and "objective" in the same way?
I didn't say that it was an objective reading - but both readings are valid (again, if based in analysis and not "I don't like him because I don't like him.")

I'm sorry, but I never tried to say that anyone was wrong for liking Gambit - simply that I disagreed with the interpretations of the episodes. I was trying to show (mostly) why I dislike the character, which is not merely about "this is my preference" but that actually has basis in the way that I view and interpret the show and the character. This is not the only interpretation (obviously), but it is a valid interpretation. I never once said that anyone was foolish or stupid or wrong for liking Gambit. I never said he was objectively inferior (I never used "objective" at all - it becomes very hard to constantly say "I think" in a discussion) - I said that my view of him was that he was not as overwhelmingly positive a character as he was being made out to be. That is my reading of the character, and there is plenty of room for disagreement. But both readings are valid, one is not more correct than the other, and none of it has anything to do with someone being wrong about a like or a dislike (I did say that I thought the reading of Obsession was wrong because I disagree with it and find some of the reasoning specious - but that is still a subjective statement, and it does not criticize anyone's likes or dislikes).
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Frankymole
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Post by Frankymole »

Thanks - I think I can safely say that I am now fully aware of your view of Gambit :)
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Post by Timeless A-Peel »

To summarise: Everyone's opinion is valid. The whole show is open to critique. I don't hate any of the characters. I am not out to character assassinate Steed. I was arguing Gambit's side, and countering your points with my own. That's all.
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Post by Lhbizness »

Naw, I don't think I've made it clear enough.
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Post by Frankymole »

;)
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Post by mousemeat »

Timeless A-Peel wrote:To summarise: Everyone's opinion is valid. The whole show is open to critique. I don't hate any of the characters. I am not out to character assassinate Steed. I was arguing Gambit's side, and countering your points with my own. That's all.
goood point...it's all moot anyhow...
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Post by Lhbizness »

Timeless A-Peel wrote:I was arguing Gambit's side, and countering your points with my own. That's all.
Yep, I understood that - and there was also a lot of criticism being tossed at Steed, which I likewise countered. I'm feeling just a little bit like I was wrong to do that or something.
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Post by Frankymole »

Why? As we all agree, there are no rights and wrongs about opinions. Let's continue to say what we like and don't like - no-one's being disparaged for having feelings or tastes that don't accord with other fans' views, that's what I like about this forum :).
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Post by Lhbizness »

It was just my impression that due to the amount of hate Gambit/Tara have taken over the years, it is now anathema to criticize them.
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