UK/US CENSORSHIP DIFFERENCES

[Dandy Forsdyke]

Diana gives 'two-fingers' to the anti-smoking lobby.

[dissolute]

Trying to get this thread back on topic, I recall a directive for the show that stressed the Americans had different rules - like not pointing a gun at the head, and so on, that the writers and directors had to follow.

[Timeless A-Peel]

Trying to get this thread back on topic, I recall a directive for the show that stressed the Americans had different rules - like not pointing a gun at the head, and so on, that the writers and directors had to follow.

There was also the infamous ban of bellybuttoms, necessitating the jewel in Diana's navel in Honey for the Prince (though they got it through in Castle De'ath. I've never been certain if that was intentional, or if it was just so easy to miss that no one on either side of the pond noticed it). In the States, they used to have long meetings concerning whether or not it would be too risqué to lower Barbara Eden's harem pants in I Dream of Jeannie enough to show her navel. They always decided against it.

[Dandy Forsdyke]

Wasn't there a directive/memo banning guns pointed at the camera (the fourth wall)?

[Timeless A-Peel]

Wasn't there a directive/memo banning guns pointed at the camera (the fourth wall)?

I think so. I seem to recall Joanna mentioning that they weren't allowed to point guns at the camera or people's heads during TNA as well. She then noting with frustration that, despite following all the rules, the US didn't buy TNA for ages because it was "too violent."

[mousemeat]

Trying to get this thread back on topic, I recall a directive for the show that stressed the Americans had different rules - like not pointing a gun at the head, and so on, that the writers and directors had to follow.

yeah, the 'censorship' rules were different ..due to the U.S. FCC riding shotgun over images seen on american television...along with the bible belt influence..

[MRotten]

I think they did try more to accommodate the US market towards the end, especially as demonstrated by the examples you highlight.

With regards to the smoking issue, again, you could well be right. Probably the most "notorious" ITC series for this was probably Man in a Suitcase - Richard Bradford et al were continually puffing-away during that series!!

I do wonder, if that is also the reason, in today's so-called "enlightened" era, for a distinct lack of re-runs of what is, otherwise, a cracking series.

They started using American terms for things as well--"apartment" instead of "flat", etc.--so clearly there was some sort of influence going on, which has been discussed by other players on the show, which is why Ray's comments surprise me. I can see them still being relatively independent on season 4--the Americans bought it on the condition that the next season would be made in colour, so I believe it was finished by the time the Americans were on board, which would make season 5 the first where they'd have any real influence. I notice all the examples of episodes they wouldn't show are from season four, which suggests to me that they did start tweaking it to fit American guidelines at that point. I'm trying to think of an episode in the colour era that was deemed too violent in the US, and all I'm coming up with is My Wildest Dream, which I believe was bumped to a later slot because of all the frenzied stabbing of people's photos and such. (Which makes me wonder what they made of The Champions episode "Autokill", which is essentially the same plot but with a much more brutal climax. At least Steed and Tara didn't have to beat six kinds of stuffing out of Teddy).

I'm actually wondering if the comment about airing late on CBS is actually about TNA, which didn't sell to the States for ages because it was deemed too violent, and when it did was relegated to the "Late Night Movie" slot on CBS. I don't recall reading anything about the original Avengers being aired anywhere but ABC the first time around. That might be wrong, though--someone else who's more up on the broadcasting dates would know better. The comment about the Midwest rings a bell, though--I think Brian Clemens said something around the start of TNA about how they were trying to make the plots a little less outlandish to pick up audiences that the original never had, due to it being deemed "ridiculous."

I would like to know about the smoking, though. Obviously shows were still getting in with it--Man in a Suitcase, as you note (though, ironically, Richard Bradford wasn't a smoker, and brought it in as a character trait because he thought it added veracity), Jason King in Department S, and Mike Pratt in Randall & Hopkirk all come to mind. The only other explanation I can come up with is that the science was starting to come back, and it wasn't deemed desirable to have your heroes chain-smoking their way through every episode, particularly nice respectable ones like Steed and Emma that people might want to emulate. I don't know that anyone was going to use poor Jeff Randall as their life model.

The Avengers aired at 10 PM, until the final season with Linda Thorson, when it aired at 7:30 PM. The New Avengers aired at 11:30 PM on the CBS network.

[mousemeat]

I think they did try more to accommodate the US market towards the end, especially as demonstrated by the examples you highlight.

With regards to the smoking issue, again, you could well be right. Probably the most "notorious" ITC series for this was probably Man in a Suitcase - Richard Bradford et al were continually puffing-away during that series!!

I do wonder, if that is also the reason, in today's so-called "enlightened" era, for a distinct lack of re-runs of what is, otherwise, a cracking series.

They started using American terms for things as well--"apartment" instead of "flat", etc.--so clearly there was some sort of influence going on, which has been discussed by other players on the show, which is why Ray's comments surprise me. I can see them still being relatively independent on season 4--the Americans bought it on the condition that the next season would be made in colour, so I believe it was finished by the time the Americans were on board, which would make season 5 the first where they'd have any real influence. I notice all the examples of episodes they wouldn't show are from season four, which suggests to me that they did start tweaking it to fit American guidelines at that point. I'm trying to think of an episode in the colour era that was deemed too violent in the US, and all I'm coming up with is My Wildest Dream, which I believe was bumped to a later slot because of all the frenzied stabbing of people's photos and such. (Which makes me wonder what they made of The Champions episode "Autokill", which is essentially the same plot but with a much more brutal climax. At least Steed and Tara didn't have to beat six kinds of stuffing out of Teddy).

I'm actually wondering if the comment about airing late on CBS is actually about TNA, which didn't sell to the States for ages because it was deemed too violent, and when it did was relegated to the "Late Night Movie" slot on CBS. I don't recall reading anything about the original Avengers being aired anywhere but ABC the first time around. That might be wrong, though--someone else who's more up on the broadcasting dates would know better. The comment about the Midwest rings a bell, though--I think Brian Clemens said something around the start of TNA about how they were trying to make the plots a little less outlandish to pick up audiences that the original never had, due to it being deemed "ridiculous."

I would like to know about the smoking, though. Obviously shows were still getting in with it--Man in a Suitcase, as you note (though, ironically, Richard Bradford wasn't a smoker, and brought it in as a character trait because he thought it added veracity), Jason King in Department S, and Mike Pratt in Randall & Hopkirk all come to mind. The only other explanation I can come up with is that the science was starting to come back, and it wasn't deemed desirable to have your heroes chain-smoking their way through every episode, particularly nice respectable ones like Steed and Emma that people might want to emulate. I don't know that anyone was going to use poor Jeff Randall as their life model.

The Avengers aired at 10 PM, until the final season with Linda Thorson, when it aired at 7:30 PM. The New Avengers aired at 11:30 PM on the CBS network.

The Tara King era, had the misfortune of going up against ' Laugh In ' which was the U.S. top rated program at the moment on NBC.

[Borgus Weems]

I don't belive too much violence would have been a factor in any but the last Avengers seasons. Up until 1969, violence was everywhere on US tv, as anybody watching all the westerns and spy shows and even saturday morning cartoons can attest. One of the most violent was Wild Wild West, which was hounded off the air due to violence because the producers didn't tone down the fights, but it would have been in the Tara King era when that happened.

Risque business has always been a different matter here, and the S&M nature of the Queen of Sin made sure that episode wasn't seen (except by the tv executives who regularly screened it at their yearly get togethers, or so I've heard).

Belly button? yeah, it was off limits!

Why I think the Avengers failed in the US when it did:

- Americans wanted more Mrs. Peel, and while Tara has many great qualities in hindsight, at the time it wasn't the show the US audience fell in love with and thus interest was lost

- Cultural tastes were changing as far as what peopled wanted to watch.

- The spy fad had reached it's peak and was in decline.

- The popularity of Swinging London and thus British culture was waining all over compared to the heights of Beatlemania and the mid-60's. Aside from the Avengers, I believe this was around the time for Hammer studios when Sir James Carracas wanted to sell off Hammer because he realised that the market was collpasing for British media at that time (and his song ultimately bought out the company but was never able to right the financial status of Hammer).

[Dfrise]

[quote=One thing I was wondering about recently is if the American sales were the reason behind the sudden cutback on smoking in the series. In seasons one to three, all the leads smoke, from Steed and Keel to Cathy and Venus, and a lot of the guest cast do as well. Starting with Emma, none of the characters do (and this obviously wasn't down to the actors, who were all smokers during their time on the series). Could that have been down to the US censors, or was their some other stylistic reason behind it, do you think?[/quote]

I would guess it came down to stylistic reasons and not US censors. Dean Martin had the #8 ranked TV show in America in both 1968 and 1969. He had a lit cigarette in his hand throughout his opening monologue. Then he would move right into a song while holding the cigarette. This was a real 3 minute song (or longer). Not a Venus Smith 55 second song.

Laugh-In was the #1 ranked show in America in 1968 and 1969. Arte Johnson was always smoking as the German soldier who would comment, "Veddy interestink." I think Gary Owens would have a cigarette in hand during some of his segments on the show.