The Avengers International Fan Forum

Frankymole wrote:Agreed - I still can't come to a conclusion. John Carson is a very careful and skilful actor though, so he certainly would have developed the portrayal and scenes with great attention to the director's intentions and the script.

It'd be interesting to know how the writer thinks about it these days, compared to how he felt about it at the time (if his writing wasn't "story edited" to within an inch of its life).

That was Roger Marshall's script through and through and he had more time with it than the usual script. I agree that scene with Mrs. Peel was very violent and misogynistic but i think the villain was fair and non discriminating in that regard. The hatred and I think homoerotic charge he got from sticking needles in mens' hearts he clearly relished and I think was just as sexual and violently perverted. He seemed more interested in men than women to me. But the reason I think it may draw more attention is it is right in our face seeing him with Mrs. Peel, whereas with the men he was metaphorically sexually killing, it was remote and less apparent.

I thought he was truly one of the creepiest villains in TA but his scenes were so short it was also short lived in the viewer's mind as well.

anti-clockwise wrote:

Frankymole wrote:Agreed - I still can't come to a conclusion. John Carson is a very careful and skilful actor though, so he certainly would have developed the portrayal and scenes with great attention to the director's intentions and the script.

It'd be interesting to know how the writer thinks about it these days, compared to how he felt about it at the time (if his writing wasn't "story edited" to within an inch of its life).

That was Roger Marshall's script through and through and he had more time with it than the usual script. I agree that scene with Mrs. Peel was very violent and misogynistic but i think the villain was fair and non discriminating in that regard. The hatred and I think homoerotic charge he got from sticking needles in mens' hearts he clearly relished and I think was just as sexual and violently perverted. He seemed more interested in men than women to me. But the reason I think it may draw more attention is it is right in our face seeing him with Mrs. Peel, whereas with the men he was metaphorically sexually killing, it was remote and less apparent.

I thought he was truly one of the creepiest villains in TA but his scenes were so short it was also short lived in the viewer's mind as well.

I don't particularly think that the villain in this case equals an inherent misogyny in the script or in the show, but rather in the character. Structurally at least, the episode doesn't demonstrate any kind of sexist or misogynistic undertones that I can find (and I'm pretty good at finding those) although the characters might be said to - I always find Steed's little reference to Mrs. Boardman's promiscuity interesting, as well as Mrs. Peel's reaction.

Very interesting point about his enjoyment in killing men. He's faced with killing a woman and obviously gets a sadistic charge out of the "tenderness" with which he'll murder her. His unzipping of the catsuit (near her breast) is what changes the dynamic - suddenly there's a sexual threat inherent in the physical threat.

Lhbizness wrote: Very interesting point about his enjoyment in killing men.

You'll love Margo's chapter about this episode in the Bright Horizons book then. It intrigued me immensely!

What a great tag scene this one has!

I gave 8

I've struggled a bit with this one.

I know for certain that I've watched every episode of series 4 and 5 of The Avengers at least 6 times in the past (and many a lot more than that), to the point where I can recite the script to a lot of them. However, when I viewed this one at the weekend I had virtually no memory of it.

It certainly has a solid story and Roger Marshall's script has some wonderfully clever and witty moments. As an early episode it lacks that certain "Avengerishness" (is that a word?) that developed later in the film series, Steed's use of a gun seeming particularly anachronistic. It's also a tad claustrophobic being almost entirely studio-bound.

I don't want to do an injustice to what I can see is a very good episode but which for some reason just doesn't gel with me, so I've given it 7/10.

It is good episode, but not a great episode. It could almost be a Saint in terms of the somewhat more localized baddies and their economic plot. It's very much a Steed show, with Mrs. Peel as a solid backup, but his investigations and assignations are front and center. He also wields firearms on multiple occasions in this one.

I think the idea of the beeper sending a deadly shock, or perhaps a tiny tincture of fast acting poison, would be more likely than that deadly dart springing from the beeper.

John Carson's killer WAS menacing though, but instead of a purveyor of sexual violence, he seemed more like somebody who approached murder as an engineer. He admired Emma's eminent architecture and was loath to do his job in an injurious way to her aesthetic. Emma was very nonplussed at the situation with the killer even when his hand was on her chest, a far cry from the emotional toll she experiences in The Joker, so I think she would have gotten free of her bonds and karate-ed the clockwork assassin into oblivion if Steed had been a tad less timely.