Videotaped Episodes

[Elle]

Once the filmed era began, the Blackman series became a legendary thing, a distant memory which was no longer accessible due to a lack of further repeats. So not much was known about it if you didn't watch them originally. In the pre-internet days, hard facts were difficult to come by and it was hard to even find much more than the odd photo or two. Fantasy and cult magazines didn't generally cover that era of the show because it wasn't considered "telefantasy". So the pre-Rigg Avengers fell through the cracks in the pavement. It remained that way for 20 years or so as well.

[Andrew Pixley]

Fantasy and cult magazines didn't generally cover that era of the show because it wasn't considered "telefantasy".

... and, I think, also because it simply wasn't as accessible during - say - the 1980s as the filmed episodes. Very little of any size could be written from a viewing of one rather ratty print of "Death of a Great Dane" which seemed to continually do the rounds or the odd screening at the NFT or events like the Dead Man's Treasure Hunt.

Thank goodness that these were made accessible again on video and on satellite during the 1990s. To be able to watch the run through in sequence really made me admire them far more than isolated examples.

All the best

Andrew

[Frankymole]

I remember being a little underwhelmed during the early 90s channel 4 repeat run, then again I didn't even really get into the Danger Man repeats where they showed a couple of episodes, The Paper Chase was one of them, I think. I remember some messing about with a go-kart.

It seemed to lack the majestic inventiveness of The Prisoner, and similarly the Series 2-3 of The Avengers lacked the gloss of the film era, but seeing them (cleaned up) and in larger chunks has revealed both shows to have a lot of originality and care put into them - as well as allowing me to appreciate the different and evolving portrayal of Steed and his fascinating interactions with Cathy.

I've even grown to tolerate Venus Smith (her final story is a cracker). You can also see that the "not telefantasy" view wasn't 100% correct when there are episodes like Dead of Winter that predicted telefantasy tropes like the craze for frozen fascists (The New Avengers' The Eagles Nest owes a lot to it!).

[Elle]

... and, I think, also because it simply wasn't as accessible during - say - the 1980s as the filmed episodes. Very little of any size could be written from a viewing of one rather ratty print of "Death of a Great Dane" which seemed to continually do the rounds or the odd screening at the NFT or events like the Dead Man's Treasure Hunt.

Yes, I remember absolutely dire copies of Great Dane and Trojan Horse doing the rounds by the mid '80s (you could just about see what was going on and the hiss on the sound used to rise up whenever there were quiet passages of audio!). But these were all that was available - so it was a case of that or nothing. At that time, the Blackman Avengers had a similar status for me to Public Eye and the b/w Callan episodes: all series that I remembered well and had seen again as repeats only in a limited way. But it was hard to discuss or comment on them without most of the episodes being available. It all seems like a different world now!

[Elle]

I remember being a little underwhelmed during the early 90s channel 4 repeat run, then again I didn't even really get into the Danger Man repeats where they showed a couple of episodes, The Paper Chase was one of them, I think. I remember some messing about with a go-kart.

It seemed to lack the majestic inventiveness of The Prisoner, and similarly the Series 2-3 of The Avengers lacked the gloss of the film era, but seeing them (cleaned up) and in larger chunks has revealed both shows to have a lot of originality and care put into them - as well as allowing me to appreciate the different and evolving portrayal of Steed and his fascinating interactions with Cathy.

I've even grown to tolerate Venus Smith (her final story is a cracker). You can also see that the "not telefantasy" view wasn't 100% correct when there are episodes like Dead of Winter that predicted telefantasy tropes like the craze for frozen fascists (The New Avengers' The Eagles Nest owes a lot to it!).

I wonder who chose which Blackman episodes were to be repeated by C4 (and why)? It always seemed to me to be a random out of sequence selection that didn't highlight the series to best advantage. I was pleased they were getting an airing finally but it was not what it could have been. I was also desperate to see the 60 minute Danger Mans again at that time, having not seen any since they were last repeated around 1972 - always one of my favourite shows but, again, like the Blackman Avengers, it was inaccessible for many years. Very frustrating! As you say though, the telefantasy overlap was stronger in the Blackman episodes than many people thought. They are more rooted to reality at this stage though, which I like.

Going back to the point of this thread though, I wonder if any paperwork still exists to indicate when the videotapes were actually wiped? I suppose it's unlikely but you never know.

[Andrew Pixley]

I remember being a little underwhelmed during the early 90s channel 4 repeat run, then again I didn't even really get into the Danger Man repeats where they showed a couple of episodes, The Paper Chase was one of them, I think. I remember some messing about with a go-kart.

I'm often dubious about "sample" episodes. They're great for maybe seeing if you might like a series or not, but I always think that to really understand a show and let it define itself and what it's about, you need to watch it through - ideally in some sort of order - to understand what it's all about.

I remember that during the early 1980s I'd seen quite a lot of the monochrome era of "Doctor Who" from the 1960s in varying qualities and a rather haphazard manner, but it wasn't until the late 1980s when I went to Canada and stayed with a friend who had taped all the syndicated TV movies of these shows and was able to watch good quality copies in sequence that I even vaguely "got" what 1960s "Doctor Who" was about for the first time.

Certainly with the hour-long "Danger Man" series, it wasn't until I got the DVD box set and was able to watch them through in sequence that I really began to understand what it was doing and the variety of approaches.

You can also see that the "not telefantasy" view wasn't 100% correct when there are episodes like Dead of Winter that predicted telefantasy tropes like the craze for frozen fascists (The New Avengers' The Eagles Nest owes a lot to it!).

Indeed, the comparison of these two episodes was one of the numerous excellent comparisons made by JZ Ferguson in her rather terrific essay on "The New Avengers" in "Survival TV".

All the best

Andrew

[Andrew Pixley]

Yes, I remember absolutely dire copies of Great Dane and Trojan Horse doing the rounds by the mid '80s (you could just about see what was going on and the hiss on the sound used to rise up whenever there were quiet passages of audio!). But these were all that was available - so it was a case of that or nothing. At that time, the Blackman Avengers had a similar status for me to Public Eye and the b/w Callan episodes: all series that I remembered well and had seen again as repeats only in a limited way. But it was hard to discuss or comment on them without most of the episodes being available. It all seems like a different world now! :)

Absolutely! A massively different world now given the access that we have to these programmes... and also all the ways in which we can quickly and easily communicate our thoughts on them to others compared to the days of physical fanzines and letraset and printers and postal services and so on...

... and, I think, by and large, a better world, with more people being able to access more stuff and offer different views on it.

All the best

Andrew

[mousemeat]

I couldn't stated it, any better...yeah, fandom has indeed come a long way, since the VHS days, and the early internet...I remember, instead of forums like this, there was the occasion bulletin board, where you could read comments, and leave a brief message...fast forward into the future, you got the whole nine yards, including misc pages, and you tube.....and I remember publications like Dave Rogers...

[Frankymole]

I'm often dubious about "sample" episodes. They're great for maybe seeing if you might like a series or not, but I always think that to really understand a show and let it define itself and what it's about, you need to watch it through - ideally in some sort of order - to understand what it's all about.

The Prisoner is already baffling to many. So it has always amazed me that the episode they choose to represent it on TV Heaven, ITV anniversary seasons and similar retro events always seems to be The Girl Who Was Death, a parody of Danger Man and contemporary spy-fi shows like The Avengers, completely unlike the rest of the series and with none of its usual settings or approach. The ITV schedulers move in mysterious ways!

[Elle]

That always puzzled me as well. Almost any time that sample episodes of anything were ever shown, you were left scratching your head as to why X was screened over many more obvious choices! That brings up an interesting topic though: if a sample episode of The Avengers was going to be shown as a best illustration of the series (this would have happened on ITV in days past, although the scenario wouldn't occur these days), which one would people choose?