what would you change?

[oneknightsteed]

I agree with you on both points, Mona!
I had not considered the Peter-in- Steeds- image as an affront to Macnee's brilliant characterization before. I most heartly agree with your elucidation.
I doubly agree with the Steed and Purdey dynamic. Purdey most certainly was far more amorous towards Steed! In the "Angels of Death" of course many of us assume she confessed her love to Steed. But, what is even more telling, when Gambit finds them still clinging together, Purdey never looks at him once! She just walks past him and only turns back to look at Steed with complete affection!
Getting back on subject, I think both your suggestions would have been great improvements!

[Mona]

Hello, Dandy,

I think it's great how two different folks can watch a series and have such a different interpretation of it. I respect your point of view and believe indeed what you watched on TNA supported your mindset. I find the whole fan aspect of TV shows really fascinating.

Here is how my mind saw the episodes below:

In TNA, Purdey has not brought Gambit to dinner with her mother, as she has another colleague. Her relationship to Gambit with me is just friend, a colleague, without any romantic interest. When is she over at his house alone, or him at hers, when did they go out for an evening together? On the other hand, after a nice night out with Steed in "Dead Men" she obviously wants to spend the night with Steed; in "Angels of Death", at the end, as OneKnightSteed wrote, she is about to tell Steed she loves him and they both ignore Gambit as they walk off together; in "Dead Men" Steed calls Purdey and shares how important she is to him, warning her to take care, and then later Steed nearly goes hysterical when he is hearing the threats against Purdey through the speakers; and in "Dead Men" Steed would willingly sacrifice himself to save her in the folly, as she screams in terror; Purdey is over at his house lounging around in "Medium Rare", is there late at night without any sign of leaving in "Medium Rare", is there early in the morning having ridden a horse with him "Medium Rare". Purdey and Gambit had a lot of bantering, but it always seemed to me that Purdey was a lot quicker than Gambit and led the bantering, while he was always struggling to keep up.

Steed dated younger women than himself, so it wasn't an age thing that kept him, as you saw it, "distant" from Purdey; Tricia from "Last of the Cybernauts" was not much older than Purdey. However, in my Steed World View, I think he was leery of emotionally harming Purdey, as although he loved her, he could never be IN love with her as a certain Mrs. Peel has taken up that one space in his heart. But, given what we see in Medium Rare, the sexual innuendo is as strong as with Steed and Emma in many episodes of "The Avengers", if you believe Steed and Emma did it, which I strongly believe. I cannot find any such inference regarding Purdey and Gambit in any TNA episode myself.

I think Gambit wanted Purdey, but as a serious girlfriend or as a sexual conquest, I'm not sure.

If you have one or more, please share it with me. I think there are several Gambit fans on this Forum, or perhaps many. I can see how some folks would appreciate that character.

[Charlie Parker]

I actually think that a few episodes of Steed and Gambit would of been benefical, there's much more interesting character play between Steed and Gambit. The pricipical of Steed's school things being trashed gets to Gambit before Purdey and everyine is is surprised when Ga,bit seems to of started alone. Also there's the moment when Steed states to Gambit "You can't help your background". I guess what I would change in TNA is Gambit's degeneration into comedy sidekick.

[Dandy Forsdyke]

Hi Mona. I won't go through the episodes to find evidence to support that G&P had the best chemistry or were well on their journey in life together, it's just the very strong impression I got from watching the episodes.

As I see it, Steed and Cathy had this big 'opposites attract' sexual chemistry where she hated his ideals but fancied the pants off him. Theres an age old 'thin line between love and hate' thing going on, it seems to me.

Steed and Emma were ideally matched. Completely hand in glove - he was the hand and she was the glove. *Inneuendo alert*

Steed and Tara - complicated. I would frown on any sexual shenanigans going on because it was such a 'mentor-pupil' arrangement, but there is clearly something happening, as has been documented before I think.

Steed and Purdey have the same mentor-pupil relationship as Steed-Tara. Purdey is clearly a fan, and she is competitive of Emma Peel, but I think her feelings are complex. I think she's clearly attracted to him - there's a line about 'You're not old' and comparing him to the Taj Mahal or something (I forget!). Purdey is also seen dating, or having dated, older men - contemporaries of Steed. So it's not an age thing.

It's just the lack of the same sexual energy between them and the the ease of Gambit and Purdey partnership that, for me, seems obvious.

I actually think that a few episodes of Steed and Gambit would of been benefical, there's much more interesting character play between Steed and Gambit. The pricipical of Steed's school things being trashed gets to Gambit before Purdey and everyine is is surprised when Ga,bit seems to of started alone. Also there's the moment when Steed states to Gambit "You can't help your background". I guess what I would change in TNA is Gambit's degeneration into comedy sidekick.

I agree completely. A missed opportunity there. Perhaps had there been a third NA season, Purdey could have had a 'holiday' episode and we could have explored the Steed-Gambit partnership. Perhaps even a flashback episode before Purdey came on the scene.

[Timeless A-Peel]

Steed and Emma were ideally matched. Completely hand in glove - he was the hand and she was the glove. *Inneuendo alert*

Steed and Tara - complicated. I would frown on any sexual shenanigans going on because it was such a 'mentor-pupil' arrangement, but there is clearly something happening, as has been documented before I think.

Steed and Purdey have the same mentor-pupil relationship as Steed-Tara. Purdey is clearly a fan, and she is competitive of Emma Peel, but I think her feelings are complex. I think she's clearly attracted to him - there's a line about 'You're not old' and comparing him to the Taj Mahal or something (I forget!). Purdey is also seen dating, or having dated, older men - contemporaries of Steed. So it's not an age thing.

It's just the lack of the same sexual energy between them and the the ease of Gambit and Purdey partnership that, for me, seems obvious.

I actually think that a few episodes of Steed and Gambit would of been benefical, there's much more interesting character play between Steed and Gambit. The pricipical of Steed's school things being trashed gets to Gambit before Purdey and everyine is is surprised when Ga,bit seems to of started alone. Also there's the moment when Steed states to Gambit "You can't help your background". I guess what I would change in TNA is Gambit's degeneration into comedy sidekick.

I agree completely. A missed opportunity there. Perhaps had there been a third NA season, Purdey could have had a 'holiday' episode and we could have explored the Steed-Gambit partnership. Perhaps even a flashback episode before Purdey came on the scene.

I agree completely, Dandy (except for Steed and Cathy--I don't think Cathy had a thing for Steed at all). And I would have loved more Steed/Gambit. A Purdey holiday story would have been great--their dynamic is one of the highlights of the show. Allow me to put forward the complicated wordy argument as is my way.

(Oh, Purdey compares Steed to St. Paul's Cathedral, btw).

I always find it bemusing when people use Purdey’s affection for one of her partners to nix any affection for the other. Here’s my take on it.

Steed and Purdey had no chemistry. Zilch. Let’s get that out of the way right from the start. As much as Joanna and Patrick may have enjoyed working together, they just never clicked onscreen. The Steed/Purdey relationship was very much a retread of the Steed/Tara relationship, which never did much for me either (and I honestly have no emotional investment/bias on that front at all). Purdey had Tara’s rather tedious hero-worship quality. Was she interested in Steed? Yes, of course. She’s a product of the Ministry’s training ground. She’s heard all the stories. Of course she’s intrigued. She gets to work with him right out of training. She’s a little in awe. Maybe she even has a little bit of a father fixation with him (her own father was a spy, too, after all, and he ended up dead). That I won’t deny.

Turning to Steed, I never feel that he’s reciprocating. Is he fond of Purdey? Sure he is. But I’d argue he’s fond of Gambit as well. By the time we hit TNA, Steed’s been in the business a long time. He’s seen and gone through a lot of crap. There’s something undeniably melancholy about him. He’s seen off four major partners (and a few minor ones), a lot of his good friends are dying on him, or going bad, or going bad and then dying. I think at this stage of the game he isn’t interested in doing the dance with Purdey. He knows she’s attractive, sure, but he always seems flattered at her interest, but not inclined to take her up on it. I think Steed wants friends at that point, people who are in the business and get it, are really good at not getting themselves killed, and aren’t likely to slip a knife between his ribs. He’s having no problems finding himself female companionship. I think he wants to keep Purdey at arm’s length.

Now Purdey, well, Purdey has a few issues. We get a very good insight into Purdey’s reasons for acting the way she does in “Obsession.” She was engaged to a man who went off the rails, tried to murder a diplomat, then slapped her around when she tried to stop him. Needless to say, this left her with a couple issues when it came to relationships—she’s afraid to get into anything serious lest it all go bad and she ends up hurt again. Steed, to her, is safe ground. If he keeps her at arm’s length, then nothing terrible’s going to happen, and if they did have some sort of liaison, I think it’d be fleeting and nothing much would come of it. So either way he’s well-within her comfort zone. She can flirt with him quite safely and never have to worry about it going somewhere that might get too serious.

Now we come to the nub of the matter. Does Purdey have any romantic interests in Gambit? Absolutely. No question. In an alternate universe with no Larry Doomer, Purdey and Gambit would have been lovers ages ago. (Some people who watched the show actually thought they were doing more than chatting when they hung around at each other’s flats, actually. I don’t believe it myself, but if you really look at it, it’s actually possible. But getting back on topic). The reason that they’re stuck dancing around each other is pretty simple—Purdey’s been burned by Larry, she’s scared of anything serious, and Gambit’s serious. Very serious. I genuinely think Purdey is the girl Gambit’s willing to give up all the others for. I’ve never bought the idea that he just wants her as the next conquest, or because she’s the first to ever turn him down. Gambit has no problem getting women. Why chase Purdey? Isn’t that a lot of work just to be able to brag about in the office the next day? Reading Gambit as all guns and sex is very simplistic, and doesn’t pay service to the layers they gave the characters in TNA, Gambit included. No, he’s willing to go the distance. He’s still hoping for “one of these days,” and he makes it known. That puts the ball firmly in Purdey’s court, and it leads to her instigate their push-pull relationship.

Purdey wants Gambit, but she’s afraid to get involved with someone again. In the meantime, she doesn’t want anyone else to have him, either. If she’s not interested in him, why does she care about his little black book? Why does she make snarky little jealous comments about his dates? She doesn’t seem to care about any of Steed’s women—on the contrary, she’s quite charitable about them. She liked Tricia, she smoothed things over with Suzy. But she’s always annoyed when she hears or sees anything about Gambit and another woman. Why does she care if he gets “carried away” with the lovely Olga? Why has she been gathering intel on his love life so she can quiz him about it in “To Catch a Rat”? What does she fob off Dr. LeParge in “K is for Kill”? (And why doesn’t she keep her eyes to herself whenever Gambit’s blanket slips in “The Three-Handed Game”?) Sometimes she gets brave and indulges herself, like when she kisses him in “Sleeper.” (Steed gets a peck on the cheek). Her reaction to his supposed demise in “Faces” speaks volumes. I could go on. There’s no shortage of examples.

The Steed/Purdey relationship was written in season 2 as a sort of misguided attempt to try and go back to the original Avengers formula after Patrick complained about his supposed lack of screentime. You can practically feel Brian Clemens trying to shoehorn it in, but the sequence in the car in “Dead Men” just feels uncomfortable (especially for Steed), and the follow-up to their near death by squishing in “Angels of Death” doesn’t really reflect very well on either character—Purdey and Steed ignoring Gambit, who’s been shot in the process of saving their necks, just comes off as cold (although I suppose Steed has an excuse, being higher than Tony Curtis on the set of “The Persuaders” at that point). (To prove that this isn’t my active Gambit bias at work, I should point out that another scene that’s always bothered me is Steed and Gambit basically patting Purdey on the head and telling her to keep the homefires burning for when they come back from their investigating in “Cat Amongst Pigeons” has always stuck in my craw. Why Purdey accepts it rather than beating them both over the head with Steed’s bowler is beyond me. Sometimes the characterization took a wrong turn for the sake of the plot). The whole emphasis on the Steed/Purdey relationship actually wreaks havoc with continuity in the process, and it weakens the dynamics—Steed and Purdey are both more fun with Gambit in the mix. By the time we drift toward the end of the season, you can see the writers were starting to realise things weren’t working, and they start putting Purdey and Gambit together again, and the spark comes back. By “Forward Base” they’re having nice little discussions about whether men would ever up and leave women they loved. Boy, I wonder what brought that on?

Clearly no one’s going to change anyone’s mind here, but I went into TNA starting with “Dead Men,” and with my attention firmly on Steed. I knew him. I didn’t know Purdey and Gambit, and I didn’t expect to like either of them as much as I did, nor to be struck by their dynamic. Purdey and Gambit were always written as having a relationship based on a promise—“One day it will happen.” They just needed to get their mess together.

And I'm spent.

[Dandy Forsdyke]

1. Redo Emma leaving Steed's so that Peter is not dressed like Steed and mimics him. This was a HUGE mistake for the show and a dismal ending to the Emma series. After having the audience love Steed, and learn to appreciate his skill, charm, cunning, capabilities, enigmatic history and adorable eccentricities, the idiot writers/producers decided to have Peter Peel either pull an elaborate joke on Steed (see comic books) or actually made Steed seem like just another upper class Englishman, common in dress and driving. One also wonders if Emma really paired with Steed because he was almost an identical replacement to Peter, instead of him being a rare and special man on his own. Either way, in my opinion, as a rampant Steedophile, it ignominiously disregarded Steed, and almost cheapened all the work Macnee had put into creating his unique and wonderful character.

I'm with you here. I hated Peter Peel. From the alliteration of his name, to the way he dressed, to his very existance. Trot along with hubby now, Mrs Peel, there's a dutiful wifey.

I've said before - on the other 'what would you change?' thread - that I would have turned Peter Peel into Sir John Knight. I know he was dead in The House That Jack Built, but that's fairly changeable. And Emma only goes along with him to investigate the whole disappearance thing. I would have made it clear she was on temporary leave and would be back.

[Timeless A-Peel]

I'm with you here. I hated Peter Peel. From the aliteration of his name, to the way he dressed, to his very existance. Trot along with hubby now, Mrs Peel, there's a dutiful wifey.

I've said before - on the other 'what would you change?' that I would have turned Peter Peel into Sir John Knight. I know he was dead in The House That Jack Built, but that's fairly changeable. And Emma only goes along with him to investigate the whole disappearance thing. I would have made it clear she was on temporary leave and would be back.

That's an interesting take--perhaps Sir John could have been the one who turned out to be missing, not dead, after all. That never occurred to me at all!

Considering how depressed I was after I saw The Forget-Me-Not, I've never really resented Peter Peel, even though I think the "I'm not Mrs. Peel" comment means they didn't stick together in the end (I've discussed that elsewhere). Poor Peter gets villainised for everything. Maybe he was a really nice guy. Maybe he was kind to puppies. Emma married him, after all, so he must have had some redeeming qualities. I didn't mind that he seemed to be a Steed clone, either--I thought it as a smirk-worthy little twist. All it means is that Emma has a type. Or just likes men with good taste in fashion. For all we know Peter was totally different from Steed, and just had similar taste in headgear.

Anyway, it was better than the alternative, which was to kill Emma off. That would have been heartbreaking. Although, if they'd made a white Emmapeeler... Steed and Peel (Deceased), anyone?

[Dandy Forsdyke]

You see I look at it deeper than Emma just a had a type. The fact that Peter Picked a Peck of Pickled Peels was Steed's double, and played by Patrick Macnee, completely undermines Emma's deep affection for Steed.

What, she only liked him because he looked like her husband! Piffle. And what an insult! In a moment Brian Clemens gives a two fingered salute to the whole Steed-Emma relationship.

[Timeless A-Peel]

You see I look at it deeper than Emma just a had a type. The fact that Peter Picked a Peck of Pickled Peels was Steed's double, and played by Patrick Macnee, completely undermines Emma's deep affection for Steed.

What, she only liked him because he looked like her husband! Piffle. And what an insult! In a moment Brian Clemens gives a two fingered salute to the whole Steed-Emma relationship.

I guess I never read that much into it. It was clearly meant to be a sight gag, a little twist at the end. I certainly don't think Steed and Emma's relationship was based on her thinking of him as Peter substitute--there was so much more to it than that. I doubt Peter was exactly like Steed, anyway--they just may have had a few similarities in wardrobe. Regardless, the sticking point for me was that Emma was leaving, not who she was leaving with. Her little farewell speech to Steed said it all. I guess a one-off sight gag just isn't enough to shake my belief in the foundations of the Steed/Emma relationship.

[Dandy Forsdyke]

I under no illusions that I do read far far too much into The Avengers than I should!

Logic tells me that scripts were written, fictional biogs were created and stories conceived to give fleeting entertainment to the TV masses. I'm sure that Steed's doppleganger was meant as a joke and not meant to be malicious kick in the goolies to the Steed-Emma relationship, but it is a case of a tease and a twist opening up a bit of a Pandora's Box in terms of thinking things through, when you sit back to analyse and think (far too much) about a show.