Angels of Death

[Lhbizness]

I'd agree with that. I've always thought that it was the idea of Steed that intrigued her, the legend more than Steed himself. I do think she has affection for him, that she cares about him, and that he's a dear friend. But I don't think romantically there's much more than a crush going on, one that would fade with time as the hero-worship wore off. I don't sense an underlying depth to it. I think Purdey hasn't been with Steed as long as Gambit has, either, so he's more of a novelty for her, too.

I'd never thought of it like that. I always assumed that Purdey and Gambit were on pretty much the same level in terms of experience as agents - hence their partnering with Steed, rather than going out on their own.

I mean, even after the walls have ceased to crush them, Purdey and Steed are standing there, pretty close together, staring at each other while Gambit asks them if they're OK. They don't really seem to be paying attention to anything else. So whatever she told him, or if she told him anything, it had an effect.

(But then I think Steed and Mrs. Peel got back together after it was all over anyways, so...)

[Timeless A-Peel]

I'd agree with that. I've always thought that it was the idea of Steed that intrigued her, the legend more than Steed himself. I do think she has affection for him, that she cares about him, and that he's a dear friend. But I don't think romantically there's much more than a crush going on, one that would fade with time as the hero-worship wore off. I don't sense an underlying depth to it. I think Purdey hasn't been with Steed as long as Gambit has, either, so he's more of a novelty for her, too.

I'd never thought of it like that. I always assumed that Purdey and Gambit were on pretty much the same level in terms of experience as agents - hence their partnering with Steed, rather than going out on their own.

I mean, even after the walls have ceased to crush them, Purdey and Steed are standing there, pretty close together, staring at each other while Gambit asks them if they're OK. They don't really seem to be paying attention to anything else. So whatever she told him, or if she told him anything, it had an effect.

(But then I think Steed and Mrs. Peel got back together after it was all over anyways, so...)

It's never explicitly stated, but there are lots of little things that suggest Purdey and Steed haven't known each other for very long at the start. The Eagle's Nest is clearly the first time Steed's seen her fight, and when he asks her where she learned her moves, she tells him about her time in the ballet, so he's clearly not aware of it, and he would be if he'd spent any length of time with her. Whereas Gambit's the first person he contacts on the assignment, and he's the one he had bring in Purdey, rather than call Purdey directly. If you watch the early episodes, there's lots of instances where Steed calls on Gambit to do things almost to the exclusion of Purdey, as though he's more used to them working as partners than a trio. In fact, if you think about it, the only reason Purdey really gets involved in Eagle's is because Steed wants her "special knowledge" about Stannard. And there's the odd bit here and there where Purdey doesn't seem to be up on her spycraft to the same extent. She seems more familiar with Gambit, though, so I suspect she's known him longer, maybe a few months. They may have worked together in some capacity outside of Steed. Steed seems to be running a lot of agents in TNA, so my guess is Gambit's his number one go-to, he pulls Purdey in as his latest addition, and then starts to work with them more to the exclusion of others as he gets a sense of who he meshes with the best.

Whatever she said, it doesn't seem to have any lasting impact on their relationship, and they seem to smile it off. There's a block of TNA season 2 episodes where the characterisation/scripting feels a bit off to me, and this is one of them. You can feel Patrick's complaint of not getting enough screentime taking effect, and everyone feels a bit shoehorned into awkward positions/interactions that don't really jive with what we saw in season one. Things start to even out towards the middle of the season, but there's a handful in there where everyone seems a bit OOC, so I find it hard to take it at face value.

I like to think Steed and Emma reunited post-TNA, too. I think K is for Kill gives us hope on that front. (And apparently it was really Diana on the phone, too, which is a bit mind-blowing!)

[Lhbizness]

It's never explicitly stated, but there are lots of little things that suggest Purdey and Steed haven't known each other for very long at the start. The Eagle's Nest is clearly the first time Steed's seen her fight, and when he asks her where she learned her moves, she tells him about her time in the ballet, so he's clearly not aware of it, and he would be if he'd spent any length of time with her. Whereas Gambit's the first person he contacts on the assignment, and he's the one he had bring in Purdey, rather than call Purdey directly. If you watch the early episodes, there's lots of instances where Steed calls on Gambit to do things almost to the exclusion of Purdey, as though he's more used to them working as partners than a trio. In fact, if you think about it, the only reason Purdey really gets involved in Eagle's is because Steed wants her "special knowledge" about Stannard. And there's the odd bit here and there where Purdey doesn't seem to be up on her spycraft to the same extent. She seems more familiar with Gambit, though, so I suspect she's known him longer, maybe a few months. They may have worked together in some capacity outside of Steed. Steed seems to be running a lot of agents in TNA, so my guess is Gambit's his number one go-to, he pulls Purdey in as his latest addition, and then starts to work with them more to the exclusion of others as he gets a sense of who he meshes with the best.

Whatever she said, it doesn't seem to have any lasting impact on their relationship, and they seem to smile it off. There's a block of TNA season 2 episodes where the characterisation/scripting feels a bit off to me, and this is one of them. You can feel Patrick's complaint of not getting enough screentime taking effect, and everyone feels a bit shoehorned into awkward positions/interactions that don't really jive with what we saw in season one. Things start to even out towards the middle of the season, but there's a handful in there where everyone seems a bit OOC, so I find it hard to take it at face value.

I like to think Steed and Emma reunited post-TNA, too. I think K is for Kill gives us hope on that front. (And apparently it was really Diana on the phone, too, which is a bit mind-blowing!)

My impression was always that Gambit and Purdey knew each other previously, and perhaps had recently met Steed, but were pretty much on the same level as agents and as partners. In fact, Purdey makes a joke in The Eagle's Nest about Steed pulling champagne corks, and later tries to invite herself into his room, so she's certainly more than casually acquainted with him by now (otherwise she would not be quite so free with teasing a superior). I guess I don't note a lot of Gambit seeming to know more than Purdey does.

I guess I'm exactly the opposite. The only characterizations that never quite clicked for me was some of the banter between Gambit and Purdey, which often felt a bit forced and overplayed. There's a nice, light attraction between Steed and Purdey that I like - a bit more subtle.

I'm personally glad that Patrick made a complaint, because the early episodes in Season 2 (before they go off to France and Canada) I feel are more interesting and well-balanced than many of the other entries of Season 1. Less "Steed sits at home and makes phone calls while the other two go play" kind of vibe.

Some of Steed's apparent ignorance at certain things about his partners' pasts seem to me more narrative devices than proper characterization - exposition for the benefit of the audience. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Steed, supposed to be one of the higher ups at the Ministry now, would not know the full background of the people he works with - especially things as basic as their former professions. That's one of the things that made Obsession unbelievable to me - that Steed would be unaware Purdey was once engaged to a man whose father was murdered. Seems like the kind of thing that should have thrown up some red flags.

[Timeless A-Peel]

My impression was always that Gambit and Purdey knew each other previously, and perhaps had recently met Steed, but were pretty much on the same level as agents and as partners. In fact, Purdey makes a joke in The Eagle's Nest about Steed pulling champagne corks, and later tries to invite herself into his room, so she's certainly more than casually acquainted with him by now (otherwise she would not be quite so free with teasing a superior). I guess I don't note a lot of Gambit seeming to know more than Purdey does.

I guess I'm exactly the opposite. The only characterizations that never quite clicked for me was some of the banter between Gambit and Purdey, which often felt a bit forced and overplayed. There's a nice, light attraction between Steed and Purdey that I like - a bit more subtle.

I'm personally glad that Patrick made a complaint, because the early episodes in Season 2 (before they go off to France and Canada) I feel are more interesting and well-balanced than many of the other entries of Season 1. Less "Steed sits at home and makes phone calls while the other two go play" kind of vibe.

Some of Steed's apparent ignorance at certain things about his partners' pasts seem to me more narrative devices than proper characterization - exposition for the benefit of the audience. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Steed, supposed to be one of the higher ups at the Ministry now, would not know the full background of the people he works with - especially things as basic as their former professions. That's one of the things that made Obsession unbelievable to me - that Steed would be unaware Purdey was once engaged to a man whose father was murdered. Seems like the kind of thing that should have thrown up some red flags.

Purdey's not hugely deferential to authority, and anyway, her request to be let into Steed's room is more of a grumbly, "I'm stuck out here on a cold Scottish night in a tree, let me in, darn it."

I figure the reason that Steed doesn't know a lot about Purdey (or Gambit's) past, except what they've told him, is because the Ministry works on a need-to-know basis, which isn't outside the realm of possibility given their line of work. I suspect he knows the essential things about their skill sets, but the intricacies of their lives are kept more under wraps.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the balance thing, although I will say that the lack of balance in season 2 is a common criticism leveled at the series, including by some of the people who worked on it. I really didn't feel Steed was underutilised in season 1, and I came to it looking for a lack of Steed. And the Purdey/Steed dynamic has never done anything for me, alas. It didn't seem subtle, just lacking much in the way of substance.

[Lhbizness]

Purdey's not hugely deferential to authority, and anyway, her request to be let into Steed's room is more of a grumbly, "I'm stuck out here on a cold Scottish night in a tree, let me in, darn it."

I figure the reason that Steed doesn't know a lot about Purdey (or Gambit's) past, except what they've told him, is because the Ministry works on a need-to-know basis, which isn't outside the realm of possibility given their line of work. I suspect he knows the essential things about their skill sets, but the intricacies of their lives are kept more under wraps.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the balance thing, although I will say that the lack of balance in season 2 is a common criticism leveled at the series, including by some of the people who worked on it. I really didn't feel Steed was underutilised in season 1, and I came to it looking for a lack of Steed. And the Purdey/Steed dynamic has never done anything for me, alas. It didn't seem subtle, just lacking much in the way of substance.

OK, well that's my personal preference. Despite some rehashing of some of the old, slightly tired tropes in the second season, there was a better balance of Steed/Purdey/Gambit, vs. the old-war horse Steed chilling in a corner while the other two have all the fun - which I still think was a major problem in some of the episodes in Season 1. I'm just going to guess that if you measure screentime for the three leads, they have more equal time in Season 2 across the board. In fact, considering it, many of those early season 2 episodes are among my favorites: Dead Men Are Dangerous, Obsession, Hostage, Angels of Death, Medium Rare. I even largely enjoy the K is For Kill episodes.

I understand why Macnee got annoyed - he was being treated a little like a hanger-on in quite a few episodes, trotted out once or twice to be wry and knowing. (And he did get into shape and look damn fine in Season 2.)

But...why wouldn't Steed know at least their former professions, former love lives? He's their superior, he has to work with them. If anyone needs to know, he does. He should at least know something about them, and professions/personal relationships are not exactly covert secrets. That never made sense to me. Particularly the fact that Purdey was engaged to a man whose father was executed - that's a pretty big issue and possible security risk, it seems to me.

[Timeless A-Peel]

OK, well that's my personal preference. Despite some rehashing of some of the old, slightly tired tropes in the second season, there was a better balance of Steed/Purdey/Gambit, vs. the old-war horse Steed chilling in a corner while the other two have all the fun - which I still think was a major problem in some of the episodes in Season 1. I'm just going to guess that if you measure screentime for the three leads, they have more equal time in Season 2 across the board. In fact, considering it, many of those early season 2 episodes are among my favorites: Dead Men Are Dangerous, Obsession, Hostage, Angels of Death, Medium Rare. I even largely enjoy the K is For Kill episodes.

I understand why Macnee got annoyed - he was being treated a little like a hanger-on in quite a few episodes, trotted out once or twice to be wry and knowing. (And he did get into shape and look damn fine in Season 2.)

But...why wouldn't Steed know at least their former professions, former love lives? He's their superior, he has to work with them. If anyone needs to know, he does. He should at least know something about them, and professions/personal relationships are not exactly covert secrets. That never made sense to me. Particularly the fact that Purdey was engaged to a man whose father was executed - that's a pretty big issue and possible security risk, it seems to me.

That's a hard sell. It's well-documented that Gambit's part got cut to give Steed more screentime after Patrick complained--that's been acknowledged by the production team. So no, regardless of personal preference, the episodes don't bear out an equal division between the leads in season 2, at least in the first half. If you're watching mainly for Steed, it works in your favour, but it's definitely there. I know I noticed it when I first saw the show (I started with season 2) and was mainly watching for Steed, given he was the only one of the three characters I was familiar with. When I cycled back to season one, I noticed more Gambit but not noticeably less Steed. I'd have to take a stopwatch to really determine whether or not Steed was getting shafted in season 1, but the cuts to Gambit in season 2 are pretty obvious.

Steed's their superior, but he's not the superior. Presumably someone above him, like McKay, would tell him what he needed to know about his colleagues as he deemed fit. Presumably they wouldn't want all sorts of intel floating around. It's not a perfect theory, I agree, but it's the best I can think of given that the show never really sat down and sketched rules for those sorts of things out in stone.

[Lhbizness]

That's a hard sell. It's well-documented that Gambit's part got cut to give Steed more screentime after Patrick complained--that's been acknowledged by the production team. So no, regardless of personal preference, the episodes don't bear out an equal division between the leads in season 2, at least in the first half. If you're watching mainly for Steed, it works in your favour, but it's definitely there. I know I noticed it when I first saw the show (I started with season 2) and was mainly watching for Steed, given he was the only one of the three characters I was familiar with. When I cycled back to season one, I noticed more Gambit but not noticeably less Steed. I'd have to take a stopwatch to really determine whether or not Steed was getting shafted in season 1, but the cuts to Gambit in season 2 are pretty obvious.

Steed's their superior, but he's not the superior. Presumably someone above him, like McKay, would tell him what he needed to know about his colleagues as he deemed fit. Presumably they wouldn't want all sorts of intel floating around. It's not a perfect theory, I agree, but it's the best I can think of given that the show never really sat down and sketched rules for those sorts of things out in stone.

I just consider that there are certain episodes in Season 1 where Steed was barely there (Faces, To Catch A Rat, Dirtier By The Dozen) or if he was, he was mostly relegated to making phone calls, not engaging in the action. If then Gambit's part was cut down and Steed's expanded, then I think it would actually have wound up evening out, episode to episode. Maybe it was also that Steed become noticeably more active in the second season, rather than just telling Gambit and Purdey to go off and do it for him. Given that Steed remains my favorite character (and I still have major problems with Gambit), that probably explains why I like at least the first part of Season 2 more. On the whole it seemed that the screentime was more balanced - and I guess I wouldn't notice if Gambit's part got cut.

I don't really fault the show for not explaining certain things, but some of the lack of knowledge always bugged me. Again, the thing in Obsession seems very confusing because it would presumably have been a security risk.

[Timeless A-Peel]

I just consider that there are certain episodes in Season 1 where Steed was barely there (Faces, To Catch A Rat, Dirtier By The Dozen) or if he was, he was mostly relegated to making phone calls, not engaging in the action. If then Gambit's part was cut down and Steed's expanded, then I think it would actually have wound up evening out, episode to episode. Maybe it was also that Steed become noticeably more active in the second season, rather than just telling Gambit and Purdey to go off and do it for him. Given that Steed remains my favorite character (and I still have major problems with Gambit), that probably explains why I like at least the first part of Season 2 more. On the whole it seemed that the screentime was more balanced - and I guess I wouldn't notice if Gambit's part got cut.

I don't really fault the show for not explaining certain things, but some of the lack of knowledge always bugged me. Again, the thing in Obsession seems very confusing because it would presumably have been a security risk.

If that had been the case, then it would have worked better, I agree. But rather than giving Steed equal screentime (and I'm still not entirely convinced that he was shortchanged over the course of the show. There may have been less of him in the odd episode, but that's true of every season of the show, not just TNA. Some scripts just wind up using some characters more) to the others, it gave Steed a huge chunk of screentime and cut Gambit's down to a fraction of what it had been in season one. It definitely wasn't equal. Whether it was a good/bad thing is obviously a matter of personal preference, and I'm not debating that. But on a factual basis, Steed and Gambit's parts in the first of half of season two weren't equal--Steed got more than Gambit, no question. It's borne out on screen, and in the comments of the people who worked on the series.

I do agree that it seems odd the whole Larry Doomer thing wasn't red-flagged, though.

[Frankymole]

The bit about the old warhorse Steed stuck in a corner while the other two have all the fun makes me thing of "The Professionals", which of course the Clemens/Fennell/Johnson triumvirate created as Avengers Mark One Productions whilst TNA was winding down, and it does make me wonder if they were trying out a prototype George Cowley figure (at least for parts of the first season) and Gambit and Purdey being the two field agents as in Bodie/Doyle in the CI5 set-up.

Clemens and Spooner did seem to want to make Steed slightly surlier than we were used to, or at least a bit depressed at the ravages of the service, with old friends and colleagues usually dead, traitors, or both. Luckily, Purdey and Gambit seemed to revive his spirits as time wore on!

As to Doomer, well, real security risks do materialise however careful the screening, anyway - look at the Cambridge spies, Ed Snowden etc. But some people are worth a risk if they're good enough - you can't operate in a war situation (even the Cold War) without taking some gambles. Purdey's antecedents were presumably so strong (even a family connection with Intelligence) that she was considered worth the risk.

[Lhbizness]

But on a factual basis, Steed and Gambit's parts in the first of half of season two weren't equal--Steed got more than Gambit, no question. It's borne out on screen, and in the comments of the people who worked on the series.

It simply didn't seem that way to me. They seem more equivalent - can't bear that out without actually sitting down and figuring out screen times for all three leads, though. And I think my preference comes down to actually giving Steed more to do, rather than pushing him onto a sofa. He got active again, and proved that he could still stand shoulder to shoulder with much younger partners (and, more than once, best them).

As I've said before, I dislike some of the suffering the writers decided it was necessary put Steed through, seemingly as a matter of plot, because...well, why not? It does get tiring after awhile. But, at the same time, he's a natural development of the character, a little tired, definitely more mature, but not without that same wryness that makes his character so likable.

No wonder Purdey had a crush on him.