The Avengers International Fan Forum

frank wrote: Diana Rigg was cast to replace Elizabeth Sheppard-she wasn't the original choice. That casting was in part due to the undeniable and rare chemsitry Rigg had with Macnee.

They chose Diana Rigg after Brian Clemens and co. met her. It was "fait accompli" according to an interview with BC. That was the reason - her screen test wasn't as good as Moira Redmond (who they were also considering). In the end they had to decide between a "new face" or Moira. They chose the new face.

As for on screen chemistry, that took awhile. Watch The Murder Market for evidence. They're still writing for Honor; Diana is hesitant and seems very 'new', and Pat and Diana lack the same spark seen in later episodes. So if it's not in their first episode I can't see how that level of chemistry could have been seen in the selection process.

frank wrote:What aree the odds she could connect to the new actor to a comparable degree? Or Sheppard may had remarkable enough chemistry with the new guy that Clemens et al might have been willing to stick out with her. But then there is the issue if Sheppard would have even been cast in the first palce with this different actor playing the male lead.

The showrunners would want to cast 2 people who are not only suitable for the part but connect well with and play off each other as effectively as possible. A different actress who was in the running might have end up being the winning candidate. That actress may have worked out splendidly and there would then be no reason to bring in a replacement for the role of Mrs Peel.

We are told Elizabeth was let go because she lacked the warmth they were looking for. Brian Clemens has said that and so has Patrick Macnee. BC also said she - along with her out of work actor boyfriend/husband - was coming on set with scripts changed and other unwanted input. BC said if she was delivering on screen she would have been okay, but she wasn't - that's as close I can get to a quote without looking it up.

There's no mention of 'chemistry' (or lack of) between Pat and Elizabeth Shepherd as far as I can see.

I guess I should have better clarify the basis of my position. The need to cast a new male lead along with a new female lead introduces a major variable that can greatly change the outcome of what we know as historical fact. This is key to contrafactual or "what if" scenarios

Diana Rigg getting the part of Emma Peel hinged on a specific chain of events happening over a set course of time. That chain events can no longer be treated as certain to happen with the new variable of recasting of the leading man.

The need for a new man will add pressure from and to the casting process of the new actress. Whether or not they choose to retain the character of Steed will affect how the producers steer the show and how the writers will plot out their scripts. A new actor would bring different working place interactions and dynamics from those that occurred with MacNee. His personality and acting ability can influence what the writers end up putting on paper and it may or may not end up being different. Most signficantly, his impact on his co-workers and fellow actors may also be different from those of MacNee.

As I stated before Sheppard may or may not have gotten the part. Her performance and her behavior may have turn out to be worse, the same or better with the presence of the new guy. She may have been ousted sooner or they may have been able to come to terms and so forth. Ergo we may have ended up with a different Mrs Peel.

Now Rigg may still very have gotten the part regardless and as you say the point is moot, but I thought I needed to explain my rationale

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:

frank wrote: Diana Rigg was cast to replace Elizabeth Sheppard-she wasn't the original choice. That casting was in part due to the undeniable and rare chemsitry Rigg had with Macnee.

They chose Diana Rigg after Brian Clemens and co. met her. It was "fait accompli" according to an interview with BC. That was the reason - her screen test wasn't as good as Moira Redmond (who they were also considering). In the end they had to decide between a "new face" or Moira. They chose the new face.

As for on screen chemistry, that took awhile. Watch The Murder Market for evidence. They're still writing for Honor; Diana is hesitant and seems very 'new', and Pat and Diana lack the same spark seen in later episodes. So if it's not in their first episode I can't see how that level of chemistry could have been seen in the selection process.

frank wrote:What aree the odds she could connect to the new actor to a comparable degree? Or Sheppard may had remarkable enough chemistry with the new guy that Clemens et al might have been willing to stick out with her. But then there is the issue if Sheppard would have even been cast in the first palce with this different actor playing the male lead.

The showrunners would want to cast 2 people who are not only suitable for the part but connect well with and play off each other as effectively as possible. A different actress who was in the running might have end up being the winning candidate. That actress may have worked out splendidly and there would then be no reason to bring in a replacement for the role of Mrs Peel.

We are told Elizabeth was let go because she lacked the warmth they were looking for. Brian Clemens has said that and so has Patrick Macnee. BC also said she - along with her out of work actor boyfriend/husband - was coming on set with scripts changed and other unwanted input. BC said if she was delivering on screen she would have been okay, but she wasn't - that's as close I can get to a quote without looking it up.

There's no mention of 'chemistry' (or lack of) between Pat and Elizabeth Shepherd as far as I can see.

It does seem as though "The Murder Market" could have been a Mrs. Gale episode.

VA_Avenger wrote:Short answer: No!

I concur..Patrick was STEED and vice versa..


Bond etc was different...

Frankymole wrote: Maybe Patrick Troughton could have played Steed, but he could have played anyone... and often did. Patrick Allen might have been good too - charm, looks great in a bowler hat, steel...

Patrick Allen wouldn't have needed an umbrella. He could club you to death with his chin.

(Hello - I'm new )

Ketman wrote:
Patrick Allen wouldn't have needed an umbrella. He could club you to death with his chin.

Ketman wrote: (Hello - I'm new )

Welcome aboard!

The Avengers run for 7 seasons, from 1961 till 1969. That's 7 or 8 years.
That's quite long for a television series, even for a popular one.
Than you got the reruns, till after 2000, you also have The New Avengers, and they even wanted to make a movie (unfortunately, they did).
So, I don't think McNee had to step down for whatsoever reason.

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:*Playing devil's advocate*

I wonder if Diana Rigg had stayed til the end (bizarre* as that may sound), would people have said the same - particularly in the US, who had never seen Dr. Keel or Cathy Gale?

Bizarre, get it? C'mon!

As much as Patrick was Steed, he was also the lifeblood of the series. To echo the words of Diana Rigg , "He was it's lynchpin and he vigilantly upheld the standards and style of the The Avengers."

The show would have died without him.


Sue

Gotta agree with the majority here--Patrick Macnee as John Steed WAS The Avengers. He had rotating female partners, but they all rotated around him. He was the show's stability--no matter the partner, everyone knew (and many loved) who Steed was, what he represented, and his importance in being in charge of, and solving, the cases. I also believe, as others have stated, that without Patrick Macnee's Steed, the entire show would have ended. And with Macnee, with rotating female partners, the show did last a very respectable amount of time.

Mona