Anticlockwise feedback

Rodders · Post by **Rodders** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:55 pm

Darren wrote:I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.

See what you think about Lauren's essay and Timeless' Afterword. They make a fascinating pair of contrasting views.

Frankymole · Post by **Frankymole** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:27 pm

Mine hasn't arrived yet - the order says "ships in 6-8 business days" but also "delivers 17 business days after printing", which is a bit confusing.

anti-clockwise · Post by **anti-clockwise** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:54 pm

Darren wrote:I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.

I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.

Rodders · Post by **Rodders** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:05 pm

Frankymole wrote:Mine hasn't arrived yet - the order says "ships in 6-8 business days" but also "delivers 17 business days after printing", which is a bit confusing.

Haven't received my hardback either. With Citylink going bust, they might be in a depot gathering dust.

darren · Post by **darren** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:29 pm

anti-clockwise wrote:
Darren wrote:I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.

Thank you so much for saying that, Margo, as it was one of my aims to put it in context. I loved writing the other two but it's the chapter I felt most satisfied structurally.

I went through the forum for comments about Homicide and Old Lace and found a comment by Fountain of Archive knowledge, Andrew Pixley, about "Who was that Man..." being the last one made before the no more edict came.

I loved your insights into Legacy of Death that I read last night. Fascinated by your spin and Steed and Tara's lifestyle. It's all made me want to see the episode again.

darren · Post by **darren** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:34 pm

Rodders wrote:
Darren wrote:I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
See what you think about Lauren's essay and Timeless' Afterword. They make a fascinating pair of contrasting views.

Although I doubt I'll agree with her, I am looking forward to reading what Lauren thinks as I know it'll be well argued.

Off topic - Something that occurred to me the other day for the general topics book was, is anyone doing an analysis of women in the series. We all know how well regarded the leads are but how did the show represent women in general. Lots of people have been doing that test recently - I forget the name - where they analyse films and TV to look at how women interact, if they only talk about men and if women talk to each other without a man present etc etc.

Lhbizness · Post by **Lhbizness** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:49 pm

It's called the Bechdel Test and requires that two female characters have a conversation about something other than a man. The Avengers does pass, I believe, although individual episodes might not. (Though my favorite test is the lamp test: replace a female character with a lamp. If the plot is not altered in any way, the film or show fails).

The Bechdel Test really was a joke to begin with, but it's amazing how many shows and films fail even that. But it's also very incomplete: a film can be extraordinarily misogynist and still pass the test (see: Sucker Punch); a film can likewise fail, but still be far from anti-woman or anti-feminist. It's just another measure of representation.

You can disagree with me: I'm still right.

anti-clockwise · Post by **anti-clockwise** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:06 pm

Darren wrote:
anti-clockwise wrote:
Darren wrote:I'm as far as Noon Doomsday so far. It's proving a very engaging read and very breezy. There's nothing really I've strongly disagreed with yet.
I really enjoy your writing style Darren. You have a talent for putting things in perspective. This was a very disjointed era. Because you cowrote Homicide and Old Lace, I decided to read it and was impressed at how you explained it. I loved the beginning. It is a crime that it is unwatchable.

It is confusing for the viewer to see this towards the end of the series, when it was recycled from the beginning. So all of this helped make this horrible episode become clearer. Also made a lot of sense that they just did not care about the quality at this point.

I do have a question as I was trying to figure this out. How did you know that "WHo was that Man I saw you with", was the final episode they produced with the belief that the show would go on? I had thought it was later in the season, but brilliantly put that after that episode they were all recycled plots and overall very weak epsiodes.
Thank you so much for saying that, Margo, as it was one of my aims to put it in context. I loved writing the other two but it's the chapter I felt most satisfied structurally.

I went through the forum for comments about Homicide and Old Lace and found a comment by Fountain of Archive knowledge, Andrew Pixley, about "Who was that Man..." being the last one made before the no more edict came.

I loved your insights into Legacy of Death that I read last night. Fascinated by your spin and Steed and Tara's lifestyle. It's all made me want to see the episode again.

I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew

In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.

Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect.

What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.

darren · Post by **darren** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:44 pm

Lhbizness wrote:It's called the Bechdel Test

That's the one. I wasn't aware of it until a few months ago but it makes for interesting results on some shows.

You can disagree with me: I'm still right.

lol

darren · Post by **darren** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:52 pm

anti-clockwise wrote:I think writing about a dreadful episode takes talent to make it so compelling as you did. I am laughing that you found the fountain of archive-Andrew In fact I wondered in general how you know so much about the production end of things. I really struggle to find those details. I am jumping around so next on my list is countless clues.

TV and Film production has long been a big interest for me. I love absorbing the technicalities, crafts and skills that go into putting it together. I try to dig around for any relevant interviews and comments from the writers, directors, actors etc and Michael Richardson's recent book has been especially helpful with the nuggets of behind the scenes info.

I'm totally at sea when it comes to looking at the thematic qualities of an episode.

Thanks for the compliment on Legacy. Given how much I idealize TA I found it extraordinarily difficult to criticize them because they are just perfect. What helped was actually reading other contributors chapters who were more balanced like yours. But the jokes on Legacy were really hilarious and my favorite Tara episode.

You reminded me of how many good gags there are that episodes - the assassin who dies when leaping on to Steed and Tara was an instant rewind moment when I first saw it and it still makes me laugh.