Overrated classic episodes

[Mona]

Being "expendable" means that they are in a dangerous line of work and might die and be replaced by another agent--it doesn't at all mean that Steed infers he will put Gambit or Purdey to death himself, or watch them die, for the sake of the country! I think you are taking one line out of context to what fans are saying they saw him do in "Man-Eater". In fact, regarding the "expendable" line, which was what he said, Steed ACTS the exact opposite regularly throughout the series.

So, I find this idea that Steed would do "anything" for the sake of the country a hard concept to agree with. We certainly never saw him do anything which left a bad taste in our mouths, or even heard of him actually doing something like callously putting a partner at risk of death. Instead we see him risk himself all the time.

And, we actually see the exact OPPOSITE of being expendable in "Hostage" when he IS willing to give out important info to save Purdey's life.

In "Dead Men", since you are using a phrase from TNA, look at him present himself to Mark Crayford, without any weapon, to have himself be shot instead of the captured Purdey. He drove his Land Rover over the missile in "Obession", risking death to save Parliament. He put himself in the hands of the enemy in "Angels of Death" to uncover those killing agents.

Regarding Emma Peel, I think one of Steed's worst actions was his having Mrs. Peel believe he was actually shot dead in "Two's a Crowd". But, otherwise, he was regularly saving her life, never watching her nearly be killed without taking serious action, and putting himself at risk.

I guess maybe I just have interpreted Steed in a different fashion than those who think, "Yeah, he'd sacrifice an unconscious Emma, without her okay or willingness, and he'd be fine to think and remember that the rest of his life." He had a much closer relationship with Emma than with Cathy and look how relieved he was in Lobster Quadrille when he learns that Cathy is okay, and not dead. If he just poured toxins on an unconscious Emma, for me, Steed would be a cad, I think, not the noble, witty, handsome, cunning, capable but caring gentleman agent I saw him as, and I thought the series consistently showed him to be.

But, as I said, this is one of the biggest debates of The Avengers!

Mona

[Timeless A-Peel]

So, I find this idea that Steed would do "anything" for the sake of the country a hard concept to agree with. We certainly never saw him do anything which left a bad taste in our mouths, or even heard of him actually doing something like callously putting a partner at risk of death. Instead we see him risk himself all the time.

Really? Never? Steed frequently did some pretty dodgy/morally questionable things throughout the Gale era. His actions and overall characterisation were quite shocking to me when I came to the Gale era after watching Emma/Tara/TNA. Gale-era Steed is a pretty nasty piece of work in a lot of ways. I actively disliked him as a character the first time I went through the two Gale seasons (he came off better during my season 2 rewatch of the DVDs, but I'm waiting for season 3 before I make my final judgment). When he suspects his partners might turn down a request for assistance in his latest assignment, his mode of operation is to give Keel/Cathy/Venus/Dr. King only half the story, send them in under seemingly innocent pretenses, and, when they find themselves wrapped up in whatever's going on, they have no choice but to help him, whether they want to or not. He manipulates Keel/Cathy/King by appealing to their morality. He does the same to Venus by preying on her trust in him, and when she won't assist, he tends to involve her without her knowledge, which inevitably gets her in trouble. I'm not saying he's actively trying to get them killed--he isn`t--but he's guilty of, at the very least, negligence. Of course he tries to help them and get them back out of trouble again, but I don't think that really justifies him having gotten them into it in the first place. And in every instance he`s done it for the sake of the assignment, because he wants to get the job done.

It's reflected in the character dynamics. All Steed's early partners pretty much tell him, one way or another, that they've had enough of him and the messes he gets them into, and cut their associations with him. There`s a reason all the dynamics are conflicted, and a lot of it is down to Steed. For Cathy, nearly burning to death in that boat is the last straw. For Steed, in terms of characterisation, that close call may be part of the reason for the changes in his character between seasons 3 and 4. Productionwise it was the result of a lot of changes behind-the-scenes and eventually the redefinition of the dynamic between the main players. But all the writers`notes for the early years quite clearly sketch Steed`s character out as ruthless, devious, manipulative, and a firm believer in `the ends justify the means.` He wasn`t meant to be an entirely likeable character, and he wasn`t.

It`s only starting in the Emma years that we get the more likeable, sympathetic, and recognisable Steed. His relationship with Emma may be a result of him finally realising that treating his partners any old way that suits him and the job wasn`t really panning out--they kept leaving. I think he personally likes Emma more than her predecessors--he really doesn`t want to alienate her, and he knows that, like the others, she`s not obligated to stick around. She can walk whenever it suits her. Coupled with being a little shaken up by how easily Cathy could have ended up dead because of him, we get a pretty plausible reason as to why he`s upfront about what he`s getting Emma into. After Emma, all of Steed`s partners are professional agents--Tara, Gambit, Purdey, even Forbes--and they know what they`ve signed on for, so it`s not quite the same situation. But you can`t discount the early Steed, and there are still traces of him in there throughout the series` run.

[Mona]

Hello, Timeless,

Those are all very good points and I agree completely with your assessment of earlier Steed. He was oftentimes presented in those ways--in fact, one wonders just if he would cut off the man's ear in the first Keel episode we have, The Frighteners.

In the previous Emma years, Steed was who he was. His partners will willing participants in his scenarios, and very quickly realized how he operated. That they continued to be willing to work with him put quite a lot of responsibility into their hands; at any point, they could tell Steed, "I'm not working with you anymore", as Cathy did, and that was that. It only takes one scenario to realize you did not have all the info when you entered into a situation; from then on, it's your choice to continue working in that manner or not. One does not have to go into the situation; one can opt out. If his partners continued to enter the situation, they had to own up to that. We do not know if Cathy actually ended her relationship in anger at Steed, and it seems actually quite unlikely, considering the Christmas card she sent him in "Too Many Christmas Trees". So for all the way he worked with her, during his very manipulative, and somewhat ruthless years, she still considered him a friend.

Venus was a very brief partnership for which I am very grateful, who still wanted to dance with Steed after the episode was over, and Steed's relationship with Dr. Keel and very briefly with Dr. King probably ended do to them having to focus more on their patients and practices, than be out investigating things. As a physician myself, I have no idea how they merged the two jobs; I could not fit it in, even if Steed came calling. Well, maybe if Steed himself came someone else could see my patients....

There is no reason to suggest that it was only Steed's personality which caused the breaks; that is an assumption which the canon does not prove. They all had other lives to focus on, as well, and that no doubt was the reason they had to end their adventuring with Steed. Even Cathy had to earn an income; apparently her husband's death in the Mau-Mau affair left her financially in need.

Steed either needed an innately wealthy amateur partner or professional ones earning a paycheck to keep things going along steadily. That's what he realized and how he chose partners after that. I'm sure he had a huge say in who he worked with!

Also, we cannot assume that Steed was heartless, as the opposite was shown very clearly in "Lobster Quadrille". He may have a method of action, but he isn't a psychopath who doesn't have human emotions; he really DOES care about Cathy, and was incredibly anxious about her health. He also respected her, let her yell at his morals and ethics, and let her be cranky around him. He also let her live in his flat when hers was being repaired (and she apparently could not afford to live in a hotel) and he moved into a hotel instead. He took her for pleasant rides in the country and out to dinner. They were, even with this working methodology, friends, as it appeared he was somewhat with Dr. Keel, too, He seemed to use Dr. Keel as his own physician as we learn they met when Steed needed help with dealing with significant stress in his life. That shows something vital about his personality, too. He was overall a decent person and very good friend, as well as a top agent; he merged the two extremely well.

In the Emma years, when you yourself admit Steed was more likeable and sympathetic, how out of character would it be, then, for him to callously pouring toxic material on a unconscious partner, especially when there was a mannequin right over there! It simply doesn't make sense to me and is very out of character for him in that Series.

But, I enjoy the discussion. I find Avenger fans to be very intelligent and good at deeper conversations about a very fascinating show. Thanks for your input. It's given me much to think about. You are very articulate and write your thoughts extremely well. Thanks, again!

Mona

[Timeless A-Peel]

Hello, Timeless,

Those are all very good points and I agree completely with your assessment of earlier Steed. He was oftentimes presented in those ways--in fact, one wonders just if he would cut off the man's ear in the first Keel episode we have, The Frighteners.

In the previous Emma years, Steed was who he was. His partners will willing participants in his scenarios, and very quickly realized how he operated. That they continued to be willing to work with him put quite a lot of responsibility into their hands; at any point, they could tell Steed, "I'm not working with you anymore", as Cathy did, and that was that. It only takes one scenario to realize you did not have all the info when you entered into a situation; from then on, it's your choice to continue working in that manner or not. One does not have to go into the situation; one can opt out. If his partners continued to enter the situation, they had to own up to that. We do not know if Cathy actually ended her relationship in anger at Steed, and it seems actually quite unlikely, considering the Christmas card she sent him in "Too Many Christmas Trees". So for all the way he worked with her, during his very manipulative, and somewhat ruthless years, she still considered him a friend.

Venus was a very brief partnership for which I am very grateful, who still wanted to dance with Steed after the episode was over, and Steed's relationship with Dr. Keel and very briefly with Dr. King probably ended do to them having to focus more on their patients and practices, than be out investigating things. As a physician myself, I have no idea how they merged the two jobs; I could not fit it in, even if Steed came calling. Well, maybe if Steed himself came someone else could see my patients....

There is no reason to suggest that it was only Steed's personality which caused the breaks; that is an assumption which the canon does not prove. They all had other lives to focus on, as well, and that no doubt was the reason they had to end their adventuring with Steed. Even Cathy had to earn an income; apparently her husband's death in the Mau-Mau affair left her financially in need.

Steed either needed an innately wealthy amateur partner or professional ones earning a paycheck to keep things going along steadily. That's what he realized and how he chose partners after that. I'm sure he had a huge say in who he worked with!

Also, we cannot assume that Steed was heartless, as the opposite was shown very clearly in "Lobster Quadrille". He may have a method of action, but he isn't a psychopath who doesn't have human emotions; he really DOES care about Cathy, and was incredibly anxious about her health. He also respected her, let her yell at his morals and ethics, and let her be cranky around him. He also let her live in his flat when hers was being repaired (and she apparently could not afford to live in a hotel) and he moved into a hotel instead. He took her for pleasant rides in the country and out to dinner. They were, even with this working methodology, friends, as it appeared he was somewhat with Dr. Keel, too, He seemed to use Dr. Keel as his own physician as we learn they met when Steed needed help with dealing with significant stress in his life. That shows something vital about his personality, too. He was overall a decent person and very good friend, as well as a top agent; he merged the two extremely well.

In the Emma years, when you yourself admit Steed was more likeable and sympathetic, how out of character would it be, then, for him to callously pouring toxic material on a unconscious partner, especially when there was a mannequin right over there! It simply doesn't make sense to me and is very out of character for him in that Series.

But, I enjoy the discussion. I find Avenger fans to be very intelligent and good at deeper conversations about a very fascinating show. Thanks for your input. It's given me much to think about. You are very articulate and write your thoughts extremely well. Thanks, again!

Mona

Why, thank you. You're very kind. There are lots of good points in there. Just indulge me a moment while I go a bit canonical on you.

Keel and Steed did not meet when Steed was going through a tough time. They properly meet in the very first episode, Hot Snow, when Keel comes home to find Steed has broken into his flat. Steed offers to help Keel bring his fiancee's murderer to justice. They're complete strangers before that (excluding them literally "running into" each other when Keel goes investigating on his own). There's also no indication as far as I know that Keel is Steed's doctor, other than in instances where he got himself hurt in the course of an assignment and had Keel stitch him up. If I'm wrong, I'd appreciate an episode for reference.

Also, Steed didn't always choose his partners. He seemed to be given free-rein right up until Emma, at which point it seems they wouldn't let him use amateurs any longer. Mother assigns him Tara and Forbes--Steed doesn't choose them. Presumably he handpicked both Purdey and Gambit, but by that point it's clear he has to choose within the Ministry rank and file.

(Oh, and while Cathy wasn't as wealthy as Emma, I think she could quite easily afford a hotel. Steed loans her his flat on more than one occasion, but at least once it becomes apparent he's hoping he'll get some free home-cooked meals out of the bargain. Cathy, of course, tells him to "Cook it and see." )

Were Cathy and co. always willing participants? No. One of my main points is that even when they say, "No, I'm busy, go away," Steed just finds a second, roundabout way to involve them. When Venus discovers Steed in her cabin in A Chorus of Frogs, the first thing she does is try to throw him out and threaten to call the steward. That's a pretty clear indication she wants him to leave her alone. Does he involve her anyway? Yes. Does she end up in danger because of it? Yes. The other method he favours is playing on their morals. Keel/King/Cathy are written as humanitarian characters--the writers' briefs state this quite clearly. So often they do agree to help Steed even though they know what he's like, yes, but he does like to give their consciences a hit to sway them. When he tells Dr. King there's an assassination attempt planned and he needs help, King turns him down. Steed accepts that, but gives him the time and place anyway, and essentially is implying, "Well, you don't have to come, but if I can't stop him on my own and he dies, don't blame me." So I'd argue there was a touch of emotional blackmail going on there. Also, because they essentially want to think the best of people, especially Cathy, there's probably always a sense of "Give him another chance. Maybe it'll be different." So sometimes they are culpable, I agree, but not when Steed involves them without their knowledge/consent, which you have to admit he makes a habit of. And one must remember Cathy is sometimes recruited by the Ministry itself, which usually gives her the full story, so that's a different scenario altogether.

I do kind of agree that Cathy puts up with Steed longer than she should considering how much he bothers her, and they do seem to have some good times together, but I think in the end the bad outweighs the good. I don't think she hates Steed, but I don't think she likes him in a lot of ways. Eventually she just gets fed up. Her Christmas card is friendly, but in a very distant way. She's far enough away that he can't drag her into anything, and the greeting's pretty standard. Steed and Cathy worked together roughly a decade before, in 1953, and then presumably didn't reconnect until 1962. Maybe in another decade she'll be willing to have a drink with him.

Venus, again, trusted Steed because he reminded her of her older brothers and was pretty decent to her at first. He misled her about being a showbiz agent, though, and used her as bait without her knowledge more than once. By her last episode she's pretty fed up with him. I have to admit a fondness for Venus--it's hard to criticise her for being ineffective when no one ever told her what was happening half the time. She ends her tenure by calling up for a separate cabin for Steed--she's had her fill.

Both Keel and King objected to more than their day jobs being interrupted, too, methinks--Steed had a habit of sending injured people on both sides of the law over to their surgeries with no notice. It's kind of hard not to get involved when there's a patient on the table needing first-aid. Again, I think that kind of roundabout way of getting them involved was their prime objection. So in all cases, I think Steed's methods had a lot to do with them severing relations. Cathy was probably being compensated half the time anyway. And she was about to go on vacation when she left--asking her to look into that "little bit of trouble" while she was gone wouldn't have hurt her bottom line. It's pretty clear to me that she's been burned (no pun intended) one time too many. She's had enough.

This makes me sound as though I hate Steed, when nothing could be further from the case. I certainly never called him "heartless," and he's not a psycopath. Would he care if one of his colleagues died? Of course he would. But that doesn't mean he didn't use some underhanded means to get what he wanted. And while he doesn't hope anyone's going to end up hurt as a result, he is taking that risk, sometimes without the person's consent. He figures he'll get there in time before anything terrible happens. Just because he always comes through in the end doesn't make it right.

My bottom line is that Steed, as a character, wasn't always written to be purely honourable, honest, or ethical, particularly in the Keel/Gale era. He had his own justifications for doing what he did, essentially to put some pretty nasty characters away, but his methods could be questionable. He was written much more sympathetically from season 4, on. The ruthless/devious side of his character is always there, but the writers have him direct it toward the enemy, not his allies. The more I look at it, the more it seems that the intention was to trick us into thinking Steed was feeding Emma to the plant until the "twist" at the end, but the execution of the sequence just made it confusing. Steed's not a saint--thank heavens, or he'd be excruciatingly dull! --and he has his reasons for what he does. I'm just asking for some acknowledgement of the less-flattering aspects of his earliest iteration.

[Mrs. Peel]

I'm watching "The Avengers" at night when I go to bed. The funny thing is, that there are some episodes I've never seen complete, because I always fall asleep. These are always the same episodes. Perhaps they are so borring well one of these is "dial a deadly number"
I don't know why, but I always fall asleep when I watch this one...

[Mrs. Peel]

and BTW a love Pandora are there no fans of Pandora?

[Mona]

Hello, Timeless,

I'm pretty good with canonical things, too!

The reference that Steed met Dr. Keel due to help for nervous exhaustion is directly from an episode, although I cannot remember which right now. We are supposed to think they hadn't met before Hot Snow, but this was changed in that line of Steed having used Keel for his actual medical skills himself. I'm quite sure of that.

Much does change in the canon over time. We see Steed fly a large plane in the Dr. King episode "Dead on Course", but then in TNA in "Trap" we hear Steed say he's never flown a plane which was the exact same size as he flew before. We hear Steed say to Susie in "Hostage" that he went on a cattle drive in 1942, (!), right during the middle of WWII, which is of course, preposterous and must be a complete lie. Susie oddly doesn't call him on it. As for Steed working with Mrs. Gale once in 1953, that is also very hard to believe, given the timing. For one thing, the Mau-Mau rebellion in Kenya went from 1952-1960. Although only 32 Europeans were killed, the killing of them did not begin until 1953, and as we know, one of the dead was Cathy Gale's husband. It's hard to believe that after her life falls apart in 1953, losing her farm, her husband, and having to return to England a mourning widow, and getting her life back together, the first thing she would do is work with Steed. I don't see that as likely, even if mentioned briefly. We know that one writer could undo what another writer established in another episode if the script watcher didn't catch lines regarding character history. So, there are disparate bits of info given to us throughout the series and everyone has to choose which bit of info they wish to incorporate into their own understanding of each character's history. BUT, if they did work together, it's understandable they might not have gotten together for another ten years--Steed was overseas for many of those years, and very busy, and also Cathy was going to school and getting her PhD in anthropology, reestablishing herself in England, and getting a job at the British Museum. So, there's no indication their separation, if one existed, was due to her dislike and disgust of Steed. That is a far-reaching theory, I think.

I think it's fair to assume that if Steed did not wish to have Tara with him as a partner, he would have said so, and Mother would have acquiesced to his choice. As we see throughout the Tara episodes, although Mother is supposedly in charge, his respect for Steed is immense, and he allows Steed to work and operate pretty much as the agent wishes. Steed is already rising to the top position he has in TNA during the Tara years. There is no reason to believe Steed would be forced to be saddled with a partner he did not wish to have, including Tara.

I think your idea that Steed lets Cathy live in his flat solely for home-cooked meals is a nice thought but unconfirmed; it is very likely also because she could not afford to live long outside her home due to accumulated additional costs. Needless to say, the main point is that only a very good friend would allow someone to move fully in, for whatever duration required, while refurbishing was occurring. Considering Steed was an active bachelor, this could put a serious crimp in his style for awhile which he willingly allowed to occur solely for Cathy's sake. I don't think it's fair to see some manipulative aspect of everything Steed does; he could at times just be a good friend, even in those early years.

It is true that for a minority of episodes, a handful, Steed forced participation by his partners. Considering I highly disliked Venus, and felt her character was entirely out of place for any type of Avenger partnership with Steed--which the writers and producers apparently agreed with--the episodes starring her were awkward at best. But, for the vast majority of Cathy episodes, Cathy was a willing participant, and knew what was going on. I'm not saying Steed was above board, as we know he wasn't, but that for most episodes his partners were aware of the scenario and did agree to participate. If Steed was really being a pest, or seriously annoying them, they could have, for example, called their MP, the newspapers or anything to equally threaten him. But, they innately believed in his work, in protecting Britain, and even in disliking his attitude and methodology at times, must have enjoyed being part of the success of his missions. Or else, Cathy was a masochist!

I would disagree with you that in the end the bad outweighs the good with Cathy and Steed, and we can each interpret the Christmas Card as we wish--if you wish to think Cathy hated him, that's fine. I've been a fan long enough to know that we all see very different aspects of the same show! That's fascinating to me, but quite a reality. I would believe that she had more a love/hate relationship with him and even though she disliked how he worked at times, she did like him and saw very positive aspects to him outside of his work. Of course she disliked the end of "Lobster Quadrille" but we have no idea whether she put a kibosh on their whole relationship as a result, or not. That is up to each fan to decide on their own. Anyway, a Christmas card is a good indication that she wished to stay in touch with Steed and he sincerely enjoyed receiving it.

Again, I appreciate that you wish to interpret the series in your own way, but there is no proof that any Keel or King severance was based on being fed up with Steed, and finding him nasty. I could restate that as a physician, it just may have been that they decided to rededicate themselves solely to their practice--each of our opinions can neither be proven or disproven, so we must mutually respect each others' interpretation for both men disappearing from Steed's life. I would also say that perhaps Steed ended the relationships as the doctors became too busy to go away with Steed in missions and he needed someone who could fit being his partner into their life. We can interpret their disappearances in many different ways.

I have already acknowledged in my previous email that I fully comprehend the nature of Steed in the earlier shows, and yes, indeed, there are "unflattering aspects" to him. However, the spy/agent business is by its very nature "unflattering"--and it's lucky Steed was out there working as he did, mostly, to prevent the crises which were oftentimes in plans by masterminds to wreak havoc on Britain's shores. That he encompassed a devotion to protecting Britain was wonderful; that any means he used to garner success was indeed something that could leave a bad feeling in the mouth of any Steed fan.

We will probably stay in disagreement on the responsibility of partners to work or not with him, and whether they had a continual right to blame Steed if they repeatedly wound up involved (outside of a couple of episodes whereby he dragged them into his plan); and also their innate relationship with him, and whether they ended their partnerships amiably or with spite and anger. The ending relationship opinion is all based on personal conjecture, and perhaps on our own personality and natures, or other untold interpretative factors--who knows? I am not trying to convince you of anything or change your point of view, just to discuss a few things and enjoy reading and learning about your individual interpretations. They are very interesting.

Anyway, I think the key point is that the evolution of Steed's character through the years was masterful and extremely rare on any other TV show. For example, Gunsmoke played on TV for 20 years and Marshall Matt Dillon was the exact same man from the first to the last episode, even given all he had gone through. John Steed, on the other hand, grew and changed over the years in a very realistic way, and created a complexity of character which was marvelous to watch. While fans will probably always debate the subjects we are discussing I hope we can all appreciate the skill of Patrick Macnee to change so realistically, but so pragmatically, as a main character. It was sheer brilliance, and the writers and producers have to be applauded as well. As the times changed, and as partners changed, and as he aged, Steed changed, evolved and matured. That's another way in long list that The Avenger set a precedent for which few other TV shows and actors have had the mastery to attain.

Mona

[Timeless A-Peel]

Hello, Timeless,

I'm pretty good with canonical things, too!

The reference that Steed met Dr. Keel due to help for nervous exhaustion is directly from an episode, although I cannot remember which right now. We are supposed to think they hadn't met before Hot Snow, but this was changed in that line of Steed having used Keel for his actual medical skills himself. I'm quite sure of that.

Much does change in the canon over time. We see Steed fly a large plane in the Dr. King episode "Dead on Course", but then in TNA in "Trap" we hear Steed say he's never flown a plane which was the exact same size as he flew before. We hear Steed say to Susie in "Hostage" that he went on a cattle drive in 1942, (!), right during the middle of WWII, which is of course, preposterous and must be a complete lie. Susie oddly doesn't call him on it. As for Steed working with Mrs. Gale once in 1953, that is also very hard to believe, given the timing. For one thing, the Mau-Mau rebellion in Kenya went from 1952-1960. Although only 32 Europeans were killed, the killing of them did not begin until 1953, and as we know, one of the dead was Cathy Gale's husband. It's hard to believe that after her life falls apart in 1953, losing her farm, her husband, and having to return to England a mourning widow, and getting her life back together, the first thing she would do is work with Steed. I don't see that as likely, even if mentioned briefly. We know that one writer could undo what another writer established in another episode if the script watcher didn't catch lines regarding character history. So, there are disparate bits of info given to us throughout the series and everyone has to choose which bit of info they wish to incorporate into their own understanding of each character's history. BUT, if they did work together, it's understandable they might not have gotten together for another ten years--Steed was overseas for many of those years, and very busy, and also Cathy was going to school and getting her PhD in anthropology, reestablishing herself in England, and getting a job at the British Museum. So, there's no indication their separation, if one existed, was due to her dislike and disgust of Steed. That is a far-reaching theory, I think.

I think it's fair to assume that if Steed did not wish to have Tara with him as a partner, he would have said so, and Mother would have acquiesced to his choice. As we see throughout the Tara episodes, although Mother is supposedly in charge, his respect for Steed is immense, and he allows Steed to work and operate pretty much as the agent wishes. Steed is already rising to the top position he has in TNA during the Tara years. There is no reason to believe Steed would be forced to be saddled with a partner he did not wish to have, including Tara.

I think your idea that Steed lets Cathy live in his flat solely for home-cooked meals is a nice thought but unconfirmed; it is very likely also because she could not afford to live long outside her home due to accumulated additional costs. Needless to say, the main point is that only a very good friend would allow someone to move fully in, for whatever duration required, while refurbishing was occurring. Considering Steed was an active bachelor, this could put a serious crimp in his style for awhile which he willingly allowed to occur solely for Cathy's sake. I don't think it's fair to see some manipulative aspect of everything Steed does; he could at times just be a good friend, even in those early years.

It is true that for a minority of episodes, a handful, Steed forced participation by his partners. Considering I highly disliked Venus, and felt her character was entirely out of place for any type of Avenger partnership with Steed--which the writers and producers apparently agreed with--the episodes starring her were awkward at best. But, for the vast majority of Cathy episodes, Cathy was a willing participant, and knew what was going on. I'm not saying Steed was above board, as we know he wasn't, but that for most episodes his partners were aware of the scenario and did agree to participate. If Steed was really being a pest, or seriously annoying them, they could have, for example, called their MP, the newspapers or anything to equally threaten him. But, they innately believed in his work, in protecting Britain, and even in disliking his attitude and methodology at times, must have enjoyed being part of the success of his missions. Or else, Cathy was a masochist!

I would disagree with you that in the end the bad outweighs the good with Cathy and Steed, and we can each interpret the Christmas Card as we wish--if you wish to think Cathy hated him, that's fine. I've been a fan long enough to know that we all see very different aspects of the same show! That's fascinating to me, but quite a reality. I would believe that she had more a love/hate relationship with him and even though she disliked how he worked at times, she did like him and saw very positive aspects to him outside of his work. Of course she disliked the end of "Lobster Quadrille" but we have no idea whether she put a kibosh on their whole relationship as a result, or not. That is up to each fan to decide on their own. Anyway, a Christmas card is a good indication that she wished to stay in touch with Steed and he sincerely enjoyed receiving it.

Again, I appreciate that you wish to interpret the series in your own way, but there is no proof that any Keel or King severance was based on being fed up with Steed, and finding him nasty. I could restate that as a physician, it just may have been that they decided to rededicate themselves solely to their practice--each of our opinions can neither be proven or disproven, so we must mutually respect each others' interpretation for both men disappearing from Steed's life. I would also say that perhaps Steed ended the relationships as the doctors became too busy to go away with Steed in missions and he needed someone who could fit being his partner into their life. We can interpret their disappearances in many different ways.

I have already acknowledged in my previous email that I fully comprehend the nature of Steed in the earlier shows, and yes, indeed, there are "unflattering aspects" to him. However, the spy/agent business is by its very nature "unflattering"--and it's lucky Steed was out there working as he did, mostly, to prevent the crises which were oftentimes in plans by masterminds to wreak havoc on Britain's shores. That he encompassed a devotion to protecting Britain was wonderful; that any means he used to garner success was indeed something that could leave a bad feeling in the mouth of any Steed fan.

We will probably stay in disagreement on the responsibility of partners to work or not with him, and whether they had a continual right to blame Steed if they repeatedly wound up involved (outside of a couple of episodes whereby he dragged them into his plan); and also their innate relationship with him, and whether they ended their partnerships amiably or with spite and anger. The ending relationship opinion is all based on personal conjecture, and perhaps on our own personality and natures, or other untold interpretative factors--who knows? I am not trying to convince you of anything or change your point of view, just to discuss a few things and enjoy reading and learning about your individual interpretations. They are very interesting.

Anyway, I think the key point is that the evolution of Steed's character through the years was masterful and extremely rare on any other TV show. For example, Gunsmoke played on TV for 20 years and Marshall Matt Dillon was the exact same man from the first to the last episode, even given all he had gone through. John Steed, on the other hand, grew and changed over the years in a very realistic way, and created a complexity of character which was marvelous to watch. While fans will probably always debate the subjects we are discussing I hope we can all appreciate the skill of Patrick Macnee to change so realistically, but so pragmatically, as a main character. It was sheer brilliance, and the writers and producers have to be applauded as well. As the times changed, and as partners changed, and as he aged, Steed changed, evolved and matured. That's another way in long list that The Avenger set a precedent for which few other TV shows and actors have had the mastery to attain.

Mona

I'd love to have a reference for the Keel line, if you can remember it. As of now, I'm going to stick with the Hot Snow version of things. The Avengers, unlike today's shows, didn't keep careful track of its canonical facts over the years, except in really broad cases (the Cybernauts, and references to Cathy/Emma/Tara depending on which season they were in), so it's unsurprising a writer would make out that Steed and Keel met any other way. But everything I've read has stated Snow was their first encounter. That line sounds a bit like it could be an off-handed comment Steed might make in jest--"Oh, yes, I was suffering nervous exhaustion, and the good doctor put me right, ha, ha!" It's a pretty easy slip to make--after all, Steed mysteriously takes different sizes in shoes and socks based on comments in two episodes. Maybe extra sock is useful in the secret agent trade? Good for hiding hip flasks, perhaps? As you say, the timelines don't always add up--Steed wouldn't be in the States in 1942, as you say, though that story always sounded a little "embellished." Cathy's time with Steed is canonically set by Don't Look Behind You. Andrew Pixley's excellent The Avengers Files lays out the timelines very nicely--Cathy worked with Steed on the Goodman case in 1953, shortly after completing her BA in Anthropology, after which point she left for Kenya with her husband. Mr. Gale didn't die until 1958, so her initial time with Steed would have been well past by then. It was at that point that she returned to England and went back to school before picking up her job at the Natural History Museum (I always thought it was the British Museum, too, for some reason, but apparently it wasn't). So Cathy was pretty busy with a lot of other things in that decade or so. Perhaps she didn't walk away the first time because of Steed, but she did walk, and it seems that Steed was the one who reestablished contact. Their relationship is actually quite pleasant early on, but towards the end of season 2 it starts to deteriorate into something more fractious. I'll have to rewatch season 3 to see if it's as conflict-habituated as I remember.

It's true that Steed would probably be allowed to choose who he worked with, and could have gotten rid of Tara if he'd wished, but I do think they were cutting down on "amateurs" starting with Tara, and limiting his ability to source people from outside the department. I will say that I think part of the reason he lets Mother choose Tara for him is that he doesn't really have the heart to go and try and find a replacement for Emma himself. My point was only that he didn't always handpick his partners--he trusts Mother enough to not stick him with somebody he can't stand.

Steed's reasons for letting Cathy live with him are entirely up for interpretation. All we can go by is what we have onscreen. We see him asking Cathy for breakfast. We never have any indication that Cathy is so "needy" that she couldn't possibly afford to put herself up elsewhere. Is he letting her stay to be nice? Well, yeah, partly. Is he hoping he might get a few extra amenities out of the bargain? I'd say yes. And with Cathy at his flat, there's always the added possibility that something might "happen." I think it's pretty obvious that's in the back of his mind the entire time.

I have to say, one of my biggest problems with Steed and Cathy's partnership is that, what with all the arguing, I kind of wonder why Cathy sticks around myself if he grates on her so much. She does leave, eventually, but we're meant think that it's her innate moral compass and sense of duty to help people that makes her stay. I think if you go back and read my post, you'll see that I never said that Cathy "hated" Steed. I think she didn't like him in some ways. I think he had fun pushing her buttons on occasion. I think she disagrees with some of his methodology. But he does make her grin at times, and they do have some fun. I think she feels as though she can't fully trust him not to have an angle. I think her Christmas card reflects not a full hate-on for him, but a need to keep him at a distance, at arm's length, for awhile. Things tend to happen when Steed's around, and she's had her fill of adventures for the time being. I'd be surprised if they didn't reconnect for a drink at some point, and if, for whatever reason, Steed needed her assistance for something absolutely vital, she would come. But I don't think they're suited for long stints together--they clash on too many levels. Some of that is down to Cathy's personality, but Steed is responsible for his own share as well.

I think Dr. King makes it very clear in his final episode that he's sick of Steed's escapades--he says as much. I don't think there's a lot of room for interpretation there. We never got a proper final Keel story because of the way the Keel season got broken two-thirds of the way through the planned season, so that one's more up in the air. But I don't think we can deny that the Steed/Keel relationship was fractious. When Keel says "If you ever do anything like that again, I'll beat the living daylights out of you" (Toy Trap), I'd say that's a pretty straightforward rebuke of his methods.

The bottom line is this: The Steed of the Keel/Gale era was a very different animal from the one we saw from Emma on. His main goal is always the successful completion of his assignment. He's not inherently corrupt/bribable. In fact, the "Steed is a traitor" episodes which revolve around his apparent conversion to the other side, while often making for good plots, irk me at some level because they question him so many times, and really, once a guy's fought off a man-eating plant from space in the course of his work, the chances of him crossing over just because the other side was offering a pay raise and a house in the Bahamas seem pretty darn slim. (Really, why would Steed need more money? That doesn't even make sense.) He's absolutely in a nasty business that requires nastiness in turn--he wouldn't be very good at his job if he wasn't able to play the game. There's nothing more fun than watching Steed turn the tables on the baddies. It's when he tries the same tricks on his partners that things become unpalatable. The Steed we got starting in the Emma era was the better partner. Yes, saying the earlier Steed always had an angle is overgeneralizing, but so is making out that he always had the purest of motivations, that he was never manipulative when it came to his colleagues, that he never had an angle, is idealising that iteration of the character. That's all I'm saying.

Most definitely, though, we got a nice evolution of Steed, which was pretty rare for a character on TV at that time, and Patrick played all of the iterations with aplomb. I'm sure he never imagined anyone would still be talking about them today!

[Frankymole]

Could the Steed/Keel "nervous exhaustion" treatment have been a cover story?

As for Steed not remembering he flew an airliner in "Dead On Course", that's easily explained. He's been knocked unconscious so many times, received so many bumps on the head, that he probably forgets half his skills and career!

[Timeless A-Peel]

Could the Steed/Keel "nervous exhaustion" treatment have been a cover story?

As for Steed not remembering he flew an airliner in "Dead On Course", that's easily explained. He's been knocked unconscious so many times, received so many bumps on the head, that he probably forgets half his skills and career!

Could be. I'm convinced that all the moments when one of the characters does something outrageously stupid that it's all down to the multiple blows to the head--and all that champagne for breakfast.