The Lost Episodes - series discussion

Spaceship Dispatcher · Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:31 am

So far, three volumes of The Avengers: The Lost Episodes have been released; they include the stories:

Hot Snow
Brought to Book
Square Root of Evil
One for the Mortuary
Ashes of Roses
Please Don't Feed the Animals
The Radioactive Man
Dance with Death
The Springers
The Yellow Needle
Double Danger
Toy Trap

peabody · Post by **peabody** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:25 pm

That seems to be absolutely correct.

Now, how about some discussion?

Spaceship Dispatcher · Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:19 pm

One of the things that most stands out for me is the recreation of the original series in terms of sound design; the music and effects are right of course, but the way the scenes are directed is in homage to the original ABC years. They even put the stings in for the advert breaks! I find myself imagining the shots in black and white, and that's always a good sign to me of a loving recreation. The type of special sounds used are reminiscent of radio effects rather than the normally more complex soundscapes that BF usually lavish on their productions.

What do you enjoy about them, peabody?

Lhbizness · Post by **Lhbizness** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:58 pm

Well, one of the interesting bits about the Lost Episodes audios is that they really prove how unpalatable some of the underlying racism/xenophobia of the 1960s is when you produce it now.

The Yellow Needle is one of those scripts with moments that you can somewhat forgive if it were actually being done in the 1960s, but really should have been developed or entirely excised in 2015.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:55 pm

It's been tweaked a little to remove the more patronising depictions in the original script, particularly the character Asiedu who speaks in pidgin English and says things like "Massah wait here small time. Shebro massah come quick, quick."

Not The Avengers' finest hour, for sure, but I have to be honest and say that it's one of the episodes that works particularly well on audio.

Lhbizness · Post by **Lhbizness** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:12 am

Alan wrote:It's been tweaked a little to remove the more patronising depictions in the original script, particularly the character Asiedu who speaks in pidgin English and says things like "Massah wait here small time. Shebro massah come quick, quick."

Not The Avengers' finest hour, for sure, but I have to be honest and say that it's one of the episodes that works particularly well on audio.

It still came off as pretty patronizing, as far as I could see (Shebro does say "Massah" once nearing the end). I think this is one of the stumbling blocks of any series that tries to depict things in a certain time period - it's kind of hard to not grapple with language or attitudes that were acceptable at the time, but are now considered offensive. One of the earlier eps (Hot Snow maybe?) also has a character speaking in a very lurid and offensive "Chinese" accent. They really ought to know better.

I liked The Yellow Needle on paper; I did not like on it audio. I'm not sure if I've ever hated Steed as much as I hated him here. (Ashes of Roses was better, IMO).

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:16 am

Lhbizness wrote:It still came off as pretty patronizing, as far as I could see (Shebro does say "Massah" once nearing the end).

What I meant was, it would have been worse if presented as originally scripted.

I think this is one of the stumbling blocks of any series that tries to depict things in a certain time period - it's kind of hard to not grapple with language or attitudes that were acceptable at the time, but are now considered offensive. One of the earlier eps (Hot Snow maybe?) also has a character speaking in a very lurid and offensive "Chinese" accent. They really ought to know better.

That was Brought to Book. I thought it was in very poor taste, and the part was played by an actress of Chinese descent in 1961 (whereas it was played by an English actress in 2013). I am confident that the original production would not have had the 'cod Chinese' heard in the Big Finish play. I wrote to them after hearing this, stating my concerns for episodes like Kill the King which would be terrible if not populated with performers from the appropriate ethnic background. Fortunately, they were ahead of me on this. It staggers me though that the Brought to Book performance wasn't toned down by the director.

Lhbizness · Post by **Lhbizness** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:31 am

Alan wrote:That was Brought to Book. I thought it was in very poor taste, and the part was played by an actress of Chinese descent in 1961 (whereas it was played by an English actress in 2013). I am confident that the original production would not have had the 'cod Chinese' heard in the Big Finish play. I wrote to them after hearing this, stating my concerns for episodes like Kill the King which would be terrible if not populated with performers from the appropriate ethnic background. Fortunately, they were ahead of me on this. It staggers me though that the Brought to Book performance wasn't toned down by the director.

Yeah, I was honestly shocked by that. I can sort of bypass it during the period, but to have something like that now, with no apparent purpose or commentary, was really offensive. I can't imagine why they did it.

I had many problems with The Yellow Needle: lack of chemistry between Keel and Jaquetta, long passages of ambient noise with no purpose, Steed being utterly uninteresting when he wasn't being utterly nasty...but I simply found the African characters to be exceptionally caricatured. It's a shame, as we actually have Steed working with (and being saved by) an African woman, but the script as played made nothing out of that. Based on the published telesnaps, there was a lot of intensity in those scenes that was lost.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:57 am

Lhbizness wrote:Yeah, I was honestly shocked by that. I can sort of bypass it during the period, but to have something like that now, with no apparent purpose or commentary, was really offensive. I can't imagine why they did it.

It (in essence) would have been down to budget. As they record four plays together, they would have needed a part for a Chinese or other Asian actress in the other three - and of course no such parts existed in those episodes. Therefore, they brought an English actress in who could play parts in those other three... but that explains the casting and not the choice of delivery.

As you say, completely and utterly indefensible in the modern era.

Lhbizness · Post by **Lhbizness** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:41 pm

Alan wrote:It (in essence) would have been down to budget. As they record four plays together, they would have needed a part for a Chinese or other Asian actress in the other three - and of course no such parts existed in those episodes. Therefore, they brought an English actress in who could play parts in those other three... but that explains the casting and not the choice of delivery.

As you say, completely and utterly indefensible in the modern era.

Sorry, but doesn't that kind of assume that an actress of Chinese descent would be incapable of playing another part? This is radio after all - actors change their voices. An actress being able to approximate a proper Chinese accent in English need not "sound Chinese" otherwise. If an Anglo actress can do a bad and offensive Chinese accent, a Chinese-Anglo actress should be able to do a credible one and play a "white" part.