The Avengers International Fan Forum

I've always wondered - the show clearly had gone through a "golden age" with Emma Peel, had success in America and globally...and ABC fired the two men who had shepherded the show to this success. Why exactly did that happen when it did? What were the politics at play behind the scenes that led to this? I've never understood why you'd fire your "show-runners" (a modern term, I know, but that's ostensibly what Clemens & Fennell were) at the top of their game?

I think it was because ABC wanted the series to be more realistic and less humorous, something which Clemens and Fennell objected to.

Yes apparently some top brass though the show was becoming too "out there" and fantastical and wanted to return to the gritty crime series of the John Bryce years (seemingly oblivious to the more fantastical series 3 shows)... Luckily the mistake was realised soon after when Bryce fell badly behind and the episodes in train were dull as ditchwater...

Amusingly once Clemens and Co were back in the saddle the show got some of its most bizarre episodes ever - thankfully!

I do wonder if this version is entirely true though. Invasion of the Earthman is about as wacky as they come, though I suspect it was reworked a bit in the edit. Terry "Dalek man" Nation, who wrote it (and was good friends with TNA writer and ITC scripter/producer Dennis Spooner, as was Brian Clemens), went on to become the script editor of the season so was clearly on the same wavelength as Clemens & Fennell.

Frankymole wrote:Yes apparently some top brass though the show was becoming too "out there" and fantastical and wanted to return to the gritty crime series of the John Bryce years (seemingly oblivious to the more fantastical series 3 shows)... Luckily the mistake was realised soon after when Bryce fell badly behind and the episodes in train were dull as ditchwater...

Amusingly once Clemens and Co were back in the saddle the show got some of its most bizarre episodes ever - thankfully!

I do wonder if this version is entirely true though. Invasion of the Earthman is about as wacky as they come, though I suspect it was reworked a bit in the edit. Terry "Dalek man" Nation, who wrote it (and was good friends with TNA writer and ITC scripter/producer Dennis Spooner, as was Brian Clemens), went on to become the script editor of the season so was clearly on the same wavelength as Clemens & Fennell.

yeah, I would concur, pretty much..but I thought it also had something to do with budget of the series, cost over runs, etc...and the mission was to reduce budget...

That was the reason given to the cast and crew but it wasn’t actually the case.

Somehow... and I appreciate that this probably isn't the whole reason... I think that it may be linked in with ABPC/ABC reasserting its control in the wake of the ITV franchise reshuffle. My understanding is that until early 1967, the series was made for ABC (and therefore ABPC) by Telemen, a company jointly owned by Julian Wintle and ABC. When it was revealed in mid-1967 that ABC would be merging with Rediffusion to form Thames from mid-1968, it was indicated that "The Avengers" would move from Telemen to be made by ABPC's Television Films subsidiary... with Julian's departure across late 1967 into early 1968. If Brian and Albert were part of the Telemen set-up with Julian, then it's likely that ABPC would have wanted to reassert more direct control via John Bryce as their own producer...

Just a theory of course...

All the best

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. That does seem more likely than them throwing away the golden goose in what seems like a fit of pique or nostalgia for the Bryce videotape era.

Frankymole wrote:Thanks Andrew. That does seem more likely than them throwing away the golden goose in what seems like a fit of pique or nostalgia for the Bryce videotape era.

It seems to "fit" in some respects... John seems to have still been at ABC on "Redcap" and then "Public Eye", although I'm not quite sure what he was working on in 1966. He's then at LWT by April 1968 and in the autumn working on "The Inquisitors" (an off-beat thriller series that was abandoned after the recording of several episodes and never aired). So if "The Avengers" needed to be brought under full control of ABPC at that juncture and John was at ABC, then that would sort of make sense...

All the best

Andrew

Andrew Pixley wrote:Somehow... and I appreciate that this probably isn't the whole reason... I think that it may be linked in with ABPC/ABC reasserting its control in the wake of the ITV franchise reshuffle. My understanding is that until early 1967, the series was made for ABC (and therefore ABPC) by Telemen, a company jointly owned by Julian Wintle and ABC. When it was revealed in mid-1967 that ABC would be merging with Rediffusion to form Thames from mid-1968, it was indicated that "The Avengers" would move from Telemen to be made by ABPC's Television Films subsidiary... with Julian's departure across late 1967 into early 1968. If Brian and Albert were part of the Telemen set-up with Julian, then it's likely that ABPC would have wanted to reassert more direct control via John Bryce as their own producer...

Just a theory of course...

All the best

Andrew

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense. I always felt like there was probably some back-room political stuff behind it, as is usually the case in these situations. I always had a little bit of a hard time believing it was done purely for creative reasons (though I know ABC didn't love all the whimsy and surrealism either and had them tone it down slightly in the second chunk of Series 5).

all good and logical points...but the bottom line, even today, is money, BUDGET. and ABC, etc...didn't have a bottomless pit for budgets, unlike their U.S. counterparts at U.S. ABC. AND once U.S. ABC pulled the plug, the show was OVER. despite countless sales and broadcasting in other regions.