The Avengers International Fan Forum

Timeless A-Peel wrote:

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:

Timeless A-Peel wrote: He might have been able to hire some more writers, too. One of the joys of TNA was the character continuity. It would have been nice if he could have stepped back and focussed more on putting those little touches in without having to worry about churning out half a dozen plots.

I think it may have followed the patten of season 6 which revitalised the show. Season 2 TNA reminds me of season 6 of the original series.

I think it would have, too--I'd have liked it to go back to the season one format and redress the balancing issues between the leads, but with some of the gutsier season 2 plots like Obsession/Dead Men.

One thing that really stood out to me when watching the BBC4 New Avengers repeats at the beginning of last year was shown in the series 2 episodes. Whatever issues there were with scripting and production, the leads looked sooo relaxed and comfortable in their respective roles and how they related to one another that even an episode like The Gladiators (which is my least favourite) proved enjoyable.

It's evident in series 2 that they were struggling, the limited budget meant the the scale of series 1 was no longer on display. Even the work of the directors wasn't as exciting or stylish.

Darren wrote:

Timeless A-Peel wrote:

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:

I think it may have followed the patten of season 6 which revitalised the show. Season 2 TNA reminds me of season 6 of the original series.

I think it would have, too--I'd have liked it to go back to the season one format and redress the balancing issues between the leads, but with some of the gutsier season 2 plots like Obsession/Dead Men.

One thing that really stood out to me when watching the BBC4 New Avengers repeats at the beginning of last year was shown in the series 2 episodes. Whatever issues there were with scripting and production, the leads looked sooo relaxed and comfortable in their respective roles and how they related to one another that even an episode like The Gladiators (which is my least favourite) proved enjoyable.

It's evident in series 2 that they were struggling, the limited budget meant the the scale of series 1 was no longer on display. Even the work of the directors wasn't as exciting or stylish.

I think pretty much everyone was running on fumes by that point, but I definitely agree that the leads had formed a great rapport by that point. Patrick commented on more than one occasion how well they fit and how it was a shame that they didn't have chance to do more episodes and play out that comraderie. One of the joys of the series is watching them interact.

Sadly, the first I ever saw on original transmission was the worst: "Trap". All I remember is our trio of heroes being pursued around the woods by lots of soldiers. I must've been about 9 years old.

Luckily Channel 4 started showing the 1960s episodes in the early 80s, and since my mum was a fan we probably tuned in from the start or near the start, perhaps "From Venus With Love" was my first "proper" Avengers episode but I'm not sure. Which did C4 show first?

Frankymole wrote:Sadly, the first I ever saw on original transmission was the worst: "Trap". All I remember is our trio of heroes being pursued around the woods by lots of soldiers. I must've been about 9 years old.

Luckily Channel 4 started showing the 1960s episodes in the early 80s, and since my mum was a fan we probably tuned in from the start or near the start, perhaps "From Venus With Love" was my first "proper" Avengers episode but I'm not sure. Which did C4 show first?

From Venus With Love

I'm not sure of my first Avengers show, but I know that whenever I was lucky enough to catch it on TV, I'd watch it. I remember once seeing it on a hotel TV and while my other three siblings were acting up and playing around, I, around age 10 or so, was glued to the TV. My love of John Steed started very early!

Later in life, I studied for one year in my undergraduate education abroad in Japan. The day that I returned to the US, my entire family picked me up at the airport, and of course as soon as we got home wanted to hear my whole long summary of the year. Only....someone turned on the TV and immediately on the screen was "Take-Over".... After I ignored 10 or so Japanese related questions from my parents, who had, by the way, paid for the whole year, I just continued to stare at the TV. Everyone gave up and let me watch "The Avengers" show. Steed always came first! Once that was over, I was happy to discuss my year in Japan!



Mona

Sadly, the first I ever saw on original transmission was the worst: "Trap". All I remember is our trio of heroes being pursued around the woods by lots of soldiers. I must've been about 9 years old.

"Trap" is the "worst"? Indeed not, Frankymole! We have Steed wounded and yelling at Gambit "It's my arm!" when Gambit is unsure if it is broken. For some perverted members in fandom, a wounded Steed always makes a good episode. We have Steed almost undressed, just in a white, somewhat unbuttoned shirt, running around and hiding in a green forest--handsome, hot, and hilarious! We have Steed figuring out how to capture bad guys and save Gambit, and using his branch cast to choke unconscious a bad guy.

We have plot lapses and goofy storylines up the wazoo (you Brits can probably figure out that American colloquialism)--Steed said he never flew a plane that large, but we see him do so in the King episode "Dead on Course". We have a plane crashing into a zillion pieces and just Steed having a broken arm as a result. We have the Caucasian speaking low acting as an Asian bad guy. We have bad guys tied to the Jeep at the end probably running out of energy in about five miles max and what do Steed and Company do with them then?

This is overall a great piece of entertainment! Not every Avengers episode has to be ultra-Classic; some are just goofy fun. Plus, did I mention Steed is just in a white, somewhat unbuttoned shirt and is injured? That's three bowlers up right there!

Mona

Mona wrote:

Sadly, the first I ever saw on original transmission was the worst: "Trap". All I remember is our trio of heroes being pursued around the woods by lots of soldiers. I must've been about 9 years old.

"Trap" is the "worst"? Indeed not, Frankymole! We have Steed wounded and yelling at Gambit "It's my arm!" when Gambit is unsure if it is broken. For some perverted members in fandom, a wounded Steed always makes a good episode. We have Steed almost undressed, just in a white, somewhat unbuttoned shirt, running around and hiding in a green forest--handsome, hot, and hilarious! We have Steed figuring out how to capture bad guys and save Gambit, and using his branch cast to choke unconscious a bad guy.

We have plot lapses and goofy storylines up the wazoo (you Brits can probably figure out that American colloquialism)--Steed said he never flew a plane that large, but we see him do so in the King episode "Dead on Course". We have a plane crashing into a zillion pieces and just Steed having a broken arm as a result. We have the Caucasian speaking low acting as an Asian bad guy. We have bad guys tied to the Jeep at the end probably running out of energy in about five miles max and what do Steed and Company do with them then?

This is overall a great piece of entertainment!

There's entertainment and then there's just - yuck. Terry Wood's 'performance' as Soo Choy doesn't just cross the line of tastelessness, it goes back and deliberately annihilates the line and then capers over the hills and far away, cackling madly.

Although your point of view is supported by "The Avengers Forever" which says "One of the three worst episodes (along with "The Gladiators" and "Gnaws"), this one at least has the benefit of being laughably bad".

Cornell, Topping & Day of The Avengers Dossier say, "Another contender for the worst-ever Avengers episode: at least Thingumajig wasn't full of bad puns and vile racism and sexism"

Dandy Forsdyke wrote:Cornell, Topping & Day of The Avengers Dossier say, "Another contender for the worst-ever Avengers episode: at least Thingumajig wasn't full of bad puns and vile racism and sexism"

Frankymole: Hey, being so bad it's laughable IS a good trait! Anyone ever see the movie "Plan Nine From Outer Space"? Incredibly amusing and awful movie. The two can be combined for good entertainment.

Dandy: I'm interested in the sexism comment about "Trap". I hadn't see sexism as an issue in the episode. Does the sexism come from using Purdey's bra as a slingshot? (Or, hmm, from Steed and Gambit both having their Woman of the Week Club in full gear at the beginning? Oh, wait, it's not sexism to sleep around with a woman for a week and then move on to another one--that's the natural personality of the main male stars we love!)

Considering Purdey does wear a bra, not sure how making a tool of it is sexism. I mean, how do you make a slingshot from Gambit's tightie whities? Won't work--you need a bra. I never was offended by that. If there is another sexist attribute aside from that one, please let me know.

Look at Charlie Chan movies--no actor portraying Charlie Chan was ever Asian; they were all Caucasians dressed up as Asian, although, oddly, Chan's sons were truly Asian. There was a history of that in film/TV making--I don't agree with it myself, but in context 35 years ago it was not yet seen as problematic or so offensive to our modern knowledge there were skilled Asian actors who should have earned that role.

There was indeed a bad pun in the tag of the episode, absolutely, which all makes us cringe no doubt, but the episode didn't otherwise wreak of racist comments. We have heard of Steed being chased by Russians, shot by Germans, in prison in Nee Sang (probably by the Chinese), etc, throughout his career; now he is chased by the Chinese (again?). The innate nationality of the bad guys does not bespeak racism. I mean, probably the Russians could not stand the character of Brodny--at least Soo Choy had some brains and dignity.

Mona

Mona wrote: Dandy: I'm interested in the sexism comment about "Trap". I hadn't see sexism as an issue in the episode. Does the sexism come from using Purdey's bra as a slingshot? (Or, hmm, from Steed and Gambit both having their Woman of the Week Club in full gear at the beginning? Oh, wait, it's not sexism to sleep around with a woman for a week and then move on to another one--that's the natural personality of the main male stars we love!)

Considering Purdey does wear a bra, not sure how making a tool of it is sexism. I mean, how do you make a slingshot from Gambit's tightie whities? Won't work--you need a bra. I never was offended by that. If there is another sexist attribute aside from that one, please let me know.

Look at Charlie Chan movies--no actor portraying Charlie Chan was ever Asian; they were all Caucasians dressed up as Asian, although, oddly, Chan's sons were truly Asian. There was a history of that in film/TV making--I don't agree with it myself, but in context 35 years ago it was not yet seen as problematic or so offensive to our modern knowledge there were skilled Asian actors who should have earned that role.

There was indeed a bad pun in the tag of the episode, absolutely, which all makes us cringe no doubt, but the episode didn't otherwise wreak of racist comments. We have heard of Steed being chased by Russians, shot by Germans, in prison in Nee Sang (probably by the Chinese), etc, throughout his career; now he is chased by the Chinese (again?). The innate nationality of the bad guys does not bespeak racism. I mean, probably the Russians could not stand the character of Brodny--at least Soo Choy had some brains and dignity.

Mona

It doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion, I just happened to have the book handy and was interested in what it had to say. I agree with your comments.

When one is talking about a product of the 1970s criticisng sexism is as pointless as admonishing a tattoo in a high secruity prison, but the racism is based around an Englishman posing as (and I quote the book again) "an odd mixture of Japanese, Chinese, but mostly Causasian and talking like Baron Greenback out of Danger Mouse.

It's fair to say there possibly weren't many Asian actors available in the UK at the time. And is this a greater crime than Peter Sellers playing a French man in the Clouseau movies or an Indian Doctor in The Millionairess